All-Star Usasf Rules Gurus - Please Read

[Cheer-ful Mom]

I'm used to it. Apparently I'm not easy to agree with.

Andre - I don't really know you but your comment completely made me LOL! Love somebody with a sense of humor about themselves!

 

[Cheer-ful Mom]

I just have to add.. while I see your point, if that CP is not working well w/ the team, is not being used to best of ability, feel they are in an unsafe situation, if there are issues and they are being shunned by the coaches/team, you are better off and reworks are probablty welcome... and if I read right, the original post didn't describe the situation so while most fo the time it is true b/c people are just gym jumping, in some of these cases I am sure it's not afftcting the rest of the team at the end of the day....

Sorry, but seen situations like that were the athlete just isn't meshing well and sometimes it takes MONTHS to figure it out and also, if that is the case, then to be honest, I would fore-go worlds one year to get out and get happy! AND I also think that is what this parent is saying.. she wants the waiver, she isn't sure where they are going, the sitaution whatever it may be is not good for her CP and family and she was willing to step down to a Junior 5 if she had to, but wants the waiver just in case... I don't see a problem w/ that...

But notorious Gym Jumpers, this is trying to protect and we all know they are out there!!!

Thank you Sparkle Spankies for your viewpoint and for pointing out what I thought was obvious. I can't believe how large this thread has become for a simple question. I really didn't mean to start such a lengthy debate. Unfortunately, due to a death in the family, I haven't been online much, so until today, I didn't see that this thread took on quite the life of its own. Quite honestly, this whole issue has become completely unimportant in the grand scheme of things - especially after dealing with what my family's dealing with. For the record, my CP did not have any problems with her teammates or coaches - there were other reasons why I as the parent chose to leave. I've been trying to avoid going into the exact reasons why so that I'm not publicly putting the issues out there - all I can say is that I still feel justified for the decision I made & the moral stance. My point in trying to get the release was that I was just trying to get everything in order while leaving so as to not cause a fuss further down the road. Unfortuantely, it was not to be that way.

And, the hard thing is that as a parent I agree with the overall idea of the rule in place to prevent gym hopping. I had never expected to be in this situation. In the seven years my CP has been cheering, I really would never have thought we'd have left a team mid-season. There was one season it was bad but we stuck it out anyways. I'm still a little shocked that it's my child who's negatively impacted by all of this but life doesn't always deal the fair cards.

 

[Cheer-ful Mom]

I would say it's not. Many many many cheerleaders' goal is to go to Worlds. The gym we're in right now? Almost 200 kids and I'd bet 30 of them could even tell you what Worlds is. And probably only the parents of our Level 5 team members could tell you. The rest talk about Level 5 like it's some sort of other sport - "They're trying to win money or something...so they can go to Disney World." <---Yes, this is a real quote. So no, I would say "most" is inaccurate.



As for the original topic of this thread...I've debated on this for DAYS while following this thread. I'm sure I'm about to ruffle a few feathers and burn a bridge or 2, but at this point I don't care. I had my feathers more than a little ruffled over the last few months by some of these people anyway (and I'm sure the bridge was burned from both sides...).

I left the gym in discussion last summer in the middle of the summer. Are my kids level 5? Nope. So I wasn't worried about Worlds or anything else. Was I completely honest with the gym as to why I was leaving? Nope - quite frankly it was more drama than it would have been worth, so I claimes finances and left (we were having some money problems so not a total lie ) . But I'm sorry...there is NOT ONE PERSON who was at that gym the first few months of this season who couldn't see that there were problems. So I don't care if your kids are level 1, 5, or 352...if you didn't know there were problems before now, then you weren't paying attention. The whole thing was one big unorganized mess. And all of the things that are supposedly "coming to light" now were things anyone who was paying attention could have seen last summer. Certainly the people posting in this thread knew about them.

I had MANY people who I thought were my friends who were either very ugly to me, lied about me, or just outright acted like I didn't exist over the last few months since we left there. Not surprising in any way, but still hurtful.

So now that those same people are suddenly scrambling around trying to decide where to go and what to do, I'm sorry but I'm not feeling the least bit sorry for them. You had until NOVEMBER to decide!!! Like I said, my kids are nowhere near Worlds level athletes, but quite frankly if they were that's all the more reason I would have left sooner- so I wouldn't have the problem with the release now. A friend of mine said it best on her FB when she said "

People threw stones at me and spread lies about me. Because I had to make a choice for my family. Wish you the best and when you come up and talk to me I will turn my back on YOU so you can get your knife out of my back." ​

So no, I'm still sticking to my stance from last year about the rule (I was very vocal about it, but for those of you who weren't here I'm very much for the rule and I was one of the people who volunteered to be part of an appeals board *for free* for situations like the ICC situation). If you waited until now to see something that many, many, many, many people (did I mention it was many people) saw MONTHS ago then you have to reap what you have sown. There's a reason sooooooo many of us jumped ship last summer.

I also mentioned last year about this same time I believe that I thought coaches shouldn't be able to gym hop mid season either but everyone jumped on me and said they have to earn a living. Yes, but you shouldn't be leaving and taking half a gym with you mid-season, earning a living or not, which brings up the recruitment issue somewhat. If you work somewhere and are that unhappy, then go. But you don't get to take whole TEAMS with you and think that's cool. It's not. This isn't the only time I've seen this - I've seen it plenty of times, and I never agree with it. This all goes back to what we said last year - choose your gyms wisely. And if you even THINK you might change your mind you had better make that decision before comp season starts.

I have to respectfully disagree with you. This was not something I saw coming months ago when you left. I thought you left for financial reasons & certainly would never press the issue with a parent nor even bring it up - it's not my business nor do I want to make someone feel worse. I don't remember ever hearing anyone talk negatively about you or your reasons for leaving & I think that I would have. I'm not saying that it didn't happen - just that it wasn't something I experienced.

But, back to the whole "we should've seen it coming" - I would not have spent countless hours trying to help an organization if I thought it was completely floundering. I knew that it was a new gym & expected there to be a few bumps in the road with growing pains. Nothing happens easily - everything takes work and new businesses especially take lots of "tweaking" to get things right - especially with a new owner who's not a previous coach/cheerleader. I felt that the staff in place would help get the owners to work out the kinks & keep the program on track. The kids & families in the program were (and the ones left there still are) great & I still think the concept was on target. To paraphrase another parent, it's just the execution that was lacking. I did not see all the big troubles until around Thanksgiving - well after this "November 1" target date.

I've always been a person who tries to believe in the best of all people. Don't worry. I've learned my lesson the hard way. Because going forward, all of you have now become guilty until you can find a way to prove yourself innocent.

 

[Cheer-ful Mom]

Was cooking dinner and thought about and didn't like parts of my last post. It sounded kinda of preachy and like I was picking on people for not checking facts on their own. I wanted my post to give suggestions for in the future. Get a few friends, maybe some from other gyms who've been around a while and know how to get info. I'm not in the gym a lot but I tend to listen when I'm there. If you're not sure how to get public records find someone who is a google expert and there is always the "somebody that knows somebody that knows....." that usually can find out the FACTS. You wouldn't believe the public records you can find online. You do have to be a little skilled at sorting through them. Just a few tips that seem to work for me. I hope it holds up.

I guess that's true enough. But, I didn't go for the owner - I went for the coaching. I really liked the coaches who were there & felt that they could help my CP. And, they did - she has grown a huge amount as a cheerleader thanks to them. Unfortunately, I didn't really anticipate all of the ancillary baggage that would go with it.

 

[shadow]

Cheer-ful Mom you get the waiver?

 

[nlow]

Cheer-ful Mom you get the waiver?

I hope she can get a waiver but the "rumor" and notice i said rumor, that I heard was that the owner was only giving waivers to athletes that went to ICE but if they wanted to go to UA it's a no go. Which is why I think that it's not the former owners business where you are going.

 

[debbie]

You know I'm beginning to think this rule was started and had NOTHING to do with gym hopping. Instead I think Gym A saw that gym B accross the street were way better and kids starting going to gym B. Gym A had such hate for gym b they ran to the usasf and cried its not fair my kids now like big bad gym b better you need to do something sob sob. Why else are we seeing cases like above where a release is ok for ICE but not for UA?

 

[ztaprincess]

You know I'm beginning to think this rule was started and had NOTHING to do with gym hopping. Instead I think Gym A saw that gym B accross the street were way better and kids starting going to gym B. Gym A had such hate for gym b they ran to the usasf and cried its not fair my kids now like big bad gym b better you need to do something sob sob. Why else are we seeing cases like above where a release is ok for ICE but not for UA?

I HIGHLY doubt that the USASF made this rule because one gym cried to them about being butthurt. There truly has been an issue with too much gym hopping in cheer over the years. The reason we are seeing cases like above is because they can do that and know that they can. They are butthurt and know that the way it is written they can get away with that but I don't think the rule was written because gyms wanted to do that.

 

[Cheer-ful Mom]

Cheer-ful Mom you get the waiver?

Unfortunately, no, we did not get the waiver. Three of us parents met with the owner. She stated that she would not sign the waivers the day we met as her lawyer had advised her not to sign anything due to a lawsuit she was filing the next day so we set an appointment for 3 days later to pick up the waivers as she said she would sign our three. The day of the appointment, she emailed two of us 1 1/2 hours prior to the appt & stated that she would not be signing ANY waivers. I have since learned that she did sign a waiver for one of the three of us who met with her & yes that athlete did go to ICE. When I asked for the waiver, we did not have a decision as to where we were going - at that point we were gathering data from a couple places.

 

[rpm99]

Unfortunately, no, we did not get the waiver. Three of us parents met with the owner. She stated that she would not sign the waivers the day we met as her lawyer had advised her not to sign anything due to a lawsuit she was filing the next day so we set an appointment for 3 days later to pick up the waivers as she said she would sign our three. The day of the appointment, she emailed two of us 1 1/2 hours prior to the appt & stated that she would not be signing ANY waivers. I have since learned that she did sign a waiver for one of the three of us who met with her & yes that athlete did go to ICE. When I asked for the waiver, we did not have a decision as to where we were going - at that point we were gathering data from a couple places.

That's beyond rotten!

 

[MissCongeniality]

Personally I think the waiver system is good but it sounds like it is totally being abused in this situation. Is there a problem with gym hopping in this sport? Yes, I witnessed it first hand last year but in this situation it just sounds like the owner is being vindictive. I admit I don't know all the details... but if nobody is behind in their payments and you release one.. you should release all.

 

[SkyBlue]

I hope she can get a waiver but the "rumor" and notice i said rumor, that I heard was that the owner was only giving waivers to athletes that went to ICE but if they wanted to go to UA it's a no go. Which is why I think that it's not the former owners business where you are going.

That rumor was going around, she did sign one release for 1 athlete that went to ICE, but 2 other athletes also went there and she won't sign their's. Another girl went to yet a different gym and she was told that the owner of the gym she went to needed to sign first (which by the way is not true), so the owner of that gym, signed it and faxed and emailed it and.....guess what...no sign!

 

[Just-a-Mom]

I have to respectfully disagree with you. This was not something I saw coming months ago when you left. I thought you left for financial reasons & certainly would never press the issue with a parent nor even bring it up - it's not my business nor do I want to make someone feel worse. I don't remember ever hearing anyone talk negatively about you or your reasons for leaving & I think that I would have. I'm not saying that it didn't happen - just that it wasn't something I experienced.

But, back to the whole "we should've seen it coming" - I would not have spent countless hours trying to help an organization if I thought it was completely floundering. I knew that it was a new gym & expected there to be a few bumps in the road with growing pains. Nothing happens easily - everything takes work and new businesses especially take lots of "tweaking" to get things right - especially with a new owner who's not a previous coach/cheerleader. I felt that the staff in place would help get the owners to work out the kinks & keep the program on track. The kids & families in the program were (and the ones left there still are) great & I still think the concept was on target. To paraphrase another parent, it's just the execution that was lacking. I did not see all the big troubles until around Thanksgiving - well after this "November 1" target date.

I've always been a person who tries to believe in the best of all people. Don't worry. I've learned my lesson the hard way. Because going forward, all of you have now become guilty until you can find a way to prove yourself innocent.

OK. UltimateRudags is aware of this, as we spoke yesterday. After I posted on this thread I lost my job. So I started caring a LOT LESS about releases etc. But now that I'm just sitting home with nowhere to go...I'll post again.

I just thought I'd reiterate that I lost my job so this matters sooooooooooooooo much less to me now than when the thread was started, but i'll reply again anyway.

Yes, I did tell the gym I was leaving for financial reasons. Yes, I was struggling financially...but I could have possibly made it work if I thought I should. But up to that point all I'd seen was my money going down the drain. I had yet to receive anything I paid for (practice wear anyone? Yeah...I STILL don't have that) and every time I turned around I was seeing bad signs and hearing rumors. No way no how was I going to practically kill myself for something I knew was going to be a disaster. And this is not a shot at you Cheer-ful Mom - I've always liked you and I know you were probably one of the only reasons they've made it this far. I just saw the signs and headed for the hills ASAP. Truthfully the few people I tried to say anything to just brushed me off as "trying to start drama" so I shrugged and thought "Ha...that's gonna be funny when that hits the fan"

As for not listening to gossip? I. LISTEN. And I listen HARD. I find that generally if you hear something from many people, many times, it usually turns out to be true.

Lastly...I'm sort of torn on this. I've thought about it and I can see where some of these Level 5 people may have not seen anything. Because I will tell you what - this gym wrote the book on catering to Level 5 and senior teams in general. My daughter was on the ONLY team in the gym that wasn't Level 5 or a Senior team, and you want to talk about a team that got shafted left and right? So maybe that's why I saw it sooner. And I dare anyone on here to say that team wasn't treated like a throwaway team - all you gotta do is look at the videos from the first comp. So maybe us Youth moms saw it sooner because we experienced it sooner. I don't know. But hopefully in the future y'all will listen to rumors and hear the LOUD warnings.

 

[shadow]

Unfortunately, no, we did not get the waiver. Three of us parents met with the owner. She stated that she would not sign the waivers the day we met as her lawyer had advised her not to sign anything due to a lawsuit she was filing the next day so we set an appointment for 3 days later to pick up the waivers as she said she would sign our three. The day of the appointment, she emailed two of us 1 1/2 hours prior to the appt & stated that she would not be signing ANY waivers. I have since learned that she did sign a waiver for one of the three of us who met with her & yes that athlete did go to ICE. When I asked for the waiver, we did not have a decision as to where we were going - at that point we were gathering data from a couple places.

Do not give up hope. My daughter got hers quite unexpectedly. Mail one with all the the required signatures and include a self addressed stamped envelope. You never know. She may realize the the public relations nightmare might not be worth it. Normally I would say she probably doesn't even have a lawyer but in this case she probably is well acquainted with several. My sister is a lawyer and she says she would advise her client to sign.

 

[SkyBlue]

Do not give up hope. My daughter got hers quite unexpectedly. Mail one with all the the required signatures and include a self addressed stamped envelope. You never know. She may realize the the public relations nightmare might not be worth it. Normally I would say she probably doesn't even have a lawyer but in this case she probably is well acquainted with several. My sister is a lawyer and she says she would advise her client to sign.

If we all don't have releases next week, for all of the kids, the public relations nightmare is going to get a whole lot worse.