What level rules need to be fixed or clarified?

[indiglow]

leval 2 should be aloud to do a toe touch back handspring

Sorry. Just hit one of my pet peeves - using the wrong homonym. (Although I am guilty of this sometimes too)
Aloud means spoken.
Allowed mean permitted.

 

[cheerleaderforlife]

Just because things seem to be easy doesn't automatically mean that should be done.

I asked "why" because I would like you to actually present a position and defend it.

ok. For the upside down stunt: the back spot is in the front, bases behind the back spot, the flyer grabs the backs hands and the bases push her up so then she's still conected to the back by the hands, and she's in a hand stand position and then we bring her back to a squish

i dont know if you can picture that, but we did it before and it was actually pretty good.

 

[ACEDAD]

ok. For the upside down stunt: the back spot is in the front, bases behind the back spot, the flyer grabs the backs hands and the bases push her up so then she's still conected to the back by the hands, and she's in a hand stand position and then we bring her back to a squish

i dont know if you can picture that, but we did it before and it was actually pretty good.

I don't mean "how", I mean "why". Why should level 2 be able to do this stunt?

 

[BubbleToes]

I don't mean "how", I mean "why". Why should level 2 be able to do this stunt?

"Because I said so!" ;)

 

[RealTalk25]

I know a lot of people disagree with this, but I think that level 3 running tumbling needs to include layouts, level 4 should max at fulls, and level 5 should be doubles.. It just seems way more logical to me..

Yes, it's a huge jump from series BHS in level 2 to layouts in level 3, BUT, I think that if you learn a tuck (current level 3 skill), it won't take an extravagant amount of extra training to learn a layout. All you have to do is straighten your body (of course, I know that it takes more than that to do a layout, but.. not really) However, to go from layouts in level 4 to doubles in level 5, is crazy.. It's HARD to learn a double. It's hard enough to learn a full, but to get a double, you'd have to log SERIOUS hours in the gym.. It's even harder to compete with teams that are doing more than half squad doubles and combo to doubles.. In SO5, you still have to compete against teams that are doing much harder skills.. Teams with squad (or less than squad, but have a good number of) fulls have 3 options... water down, and sandbag level 4, go SO5, and continue to not be competitive because of the huge gyms with so much rollover talent that their SO5 teams are all throwing standing and jump to fulls, or go level 5 and get completely SMASHED because everyone is throwing at least 30% doubles..

I say, if you're gona have a big gap in skill difficulty, do it before the skills are really difficult.

However.. on the con side of my own argument.. Maybe putting layouts and tucks in the same category wouldn't be good for technique.. people would be chucking "layouts" over just for difficulty points.. Then, when they get to the level with fulls, they don't have a good foundation.. But then again, we're cheerleaders, not gymnasts.. since when have cheerleaders cared about tumbling technique.. you can ALWAYS tell a lifetime cheerleader's double from an ex-gymnast's.. Thoughts?

I mean.. I still think it's better to keep non-twisting body positions in one, single fulls in another, and doubles in yet another.. but I was just playing devil's advocate for my own suggestion

 

[foundmyway2SC]

I know a lot of people disagree with this, but I think that level 3 running tumbling needs to include layouts, level 4 should max at fulls, and level 5 should be doubles.. It just seems way more logical to me..

Yes, it's a huge jump from series BHS in level 2 to layouts in level 3, BUT, I think that if you learn a tuck (current level 3 skill), it won't take an extravagant amount of extra training to learn a layout. All you have to do is straighten your body (of course, I know that it takes more than that to do a layout, but.. not really) However, to go from layouts in level 4 to doubles in level 5, is crazy.. It's HARD to learn a double. It's hard enough to learn a full, but to get a double, you'd have to log SERIOUS hours in the gym.. It's even harder to compete with teams that are doing more than half squad doubles and combo to doubles.. In SO5, you still have to compete against teams that are doing much harder skills.. Teams with squad (or less than squad, but have a good number of) fulls have 3 options... water down, and sandbag level 4, go SO5, and continue to not be competitive because of the huge gyms with so much rollover talent that their SO5 teams are all throwing standing and jump to fulls, or go level 5 and get completely SMASHED because everyone is throwing at least 30% doubles..

I say, if you're gona have a big gap in skill difficulty, do it before the skills are really difficult.

However.. on the con side of my own argument.. Maybe putting layouts and tucks in the same category wouldn't be good for technique.. people would be chucking "layouts" over just for difficulty points.. Then, when they get to the level with fulls, they don't have a good foundation.. But then again, we're cheerleaders, not gymnasts.. since when have cheerleaders cared about tumbling technique.. you can ALWAYS tell a lifetime cheerleader's double from an ex-gymnast's.. Thoughts?

I mean.. I still think it's better to keep non-twisting body positions in one, single fulls in another, and doubles in yet another.. but I was just playing devil's advocate for my own suggestion

I think rather than making layouts legal at level 3, have it at tucks for level 3, layouts for 4, just fulls for 5, and doubles for 6.

 

[WuToDouble]

i feel like thats the purpose of SO5

 

[RealTalk25]

i feel like thats the purpose of SO5

yeah, but why have a new level created, when you can consolidate?

 

[cheerislove8]

yeah, but why have a new level created, when you can consolidate?

But the level was already created. I understand your reasoning for those other level ideas, but I feel like that would be complicated to change all those rules. I think the Senior Open 5 rule changes proposed at the summer meetings help solve the whole "stacked open 5 teams" issue.

 

[CGAcheer]

I would not be opposed to the following:
Level 3 any non twisting flipping skill, with no tumbling after the flipping skill
Level 4 up to 1 twist and 1 flipping rotation, Fulls require a handspring entry with no tumbling after the full.
Level 5 current level 5 rules
Level 6 up 2 twisting and 2 flipping rotations

 

[RealTalk25]

I would not be opposed to the following:
Level 3 any non twisting flipping skill, with no tumbling after the flipping skill
Level 4 up to 1 twist and 1 flipping rotation, Fulls require a handspring entry with no tumbling after the full.
Level 5 current level 5 rules
Level 6 up 2 twisting and 2 flipping rotations

YES! I would totally agree.. Cheerislove, I can respect that

 

[foundmyway2SC]

I would not be opposed to the following:
Level 3 any non twisting flipping skill, with no tumbling after the flipping skill
Level 4 up to 1 twist and 1 flipping rotation, Fulls require a handspring entry with no tumbling after the full.
Level 5 current level 5 rules
Level 6 up 2 twisting and 2 flipping rotations

Okay this is definitely a good idea! :)

 

[glittergirl]

leval 2 should be aloud to do a toe touch back handspring

I agree. I think that it's not a difficult skill once you have a standing backhandspring. Level 2's can throw backwalkover backhandsprings, which is a connected skill, just like toe-touch backhandsprings. I find them very similar, and to me they're the same degree of difficulty. Also, my team(senior 4.2) was trying them just to experiment, and every girl could do one, even girls who got their standing handsprings recently. I think most level 2's would be able to throw these. Just my opinion.

 

[BlueCat]

You're from ACE. You don't see the forest for the trees. The gap between level 4 and 5 is huge and, practically, uncrossable. Gyms can't compete with the teams in 5. The talent of that level has moved too far ahead of 4 for gyms to be able to make that leap. SO5 was made to be a stepping stone between these two levels. The teams from larger gyms are ruining the level for people who it was made for,\ because the gap between them is two huge when gyms with strong tumblers/stunters who sandbag. Instead of the teams SO5 was made for having a chance, they're again unable to compete. The larger gyms in the nation have pushed the limits of level 5 so much it's not possible for a gym with a level 4 team to ever be able to catch up. What bothers me is that teams that are working their butt's off pulling stuff they barely have in a level designed specifically *for* them, and still can never measure up/win/succeed in any way. I understand how hard it must be to be level 5 at a gym like ACE. But taking advantage of SO5 is not the answer...

You have repeatedly made reference to the idea that SO5 was created for a specific type of gym. This is not true. It was created for a specific type of athlete and/or a specific roster situation. (Athletes - those with low-end L5 skills. Roster situations - athletes spanning multiple age ranges.) These athletes and situations exist at gyms of all sizes.