All-Star What Should Penalty Be For Cheating?

[HeyimA]

The gym that uses ineligible athletes may not always have a worlds team so being banned from worlds for a year may not always pertain and other actions should be taken in that case, although if it is a worlds team that should definitely be a consequence. The consequence should be severe so that gyms don't think twice about competing illegal athletes, it's not fair to gyms who follow the USASF guidelines and rules. Injuries are not an excuse, it's an obstacle almost every team faces an although unfortunate it doesn't give you an excuse to cheat. Punishments may affect other athletes within the program but it should make them think twice about the organization that they are apart of and paying money to. Do you want to be apart of an organization that is dishonest, doesn't follow rules, not to mention setting a bad moral example to your children.

 

[King]

I would truly feel bad and sorry for any athletes that get caught up in a shady gyms doings. But if we do not police, restrict, and punish the shady gym (with unfortunate casualties) they we are saying it is ok to do all the things a shady gym is doing.

 

[spiritmama]

this is horrible and people are a mess one win is not worth losing your entire program over, because once exposed you will forever be known as the gym that cheated. the Event company should make them return their win and give it to the second place team and all the perks that go with it.

Not the case... there was a HUGE blowup in my area a couple years ago about ineligable althletes on a team that got busted before the comp even started. They were allowed to rearrange their kids by age, pick a new division, compete, and win (went from international to level 4) Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE knew what happend, and the owner caught major poop on a message board for a couple weeks...(IMO that was probably the hardest for her & the gym to handle) but by the next season noone really rememberd (or cared?) and now its a faint memory. Gym still thriving, and noone ever says they are the gym that cheated. Ever.

 

[spiritmama]

Well, what else is there?

Public shaming worked in our area.... it was brutal and I actually did feel bad for the owner, especially when it got personal, but I guarantee she wouldn't ever do it again.

 

[King]

The other problem is responsibility. Who's responsibility is it to get the athletes age correct?

Before you say 'the gym' what happens if an athlete lies to the gym? What if the gym is innocent and the athlete did it to keep competing?

That is why the system should be setup so ONLY the athlete shoulders the responsibility of their age, because it is theirs. And a gym in no way shape or form can alter or change that age.

 

[spiritmama]

actually, there are a ton of practical ways to enforce. one i have proposed this year (and many years before) is just to take a picture of the team before and after they compete.

and at the end of teh day if someone truly wants to cheat, they can. you just have to setup a situation where it is difficult and the reward is not that great.

Unfortunatly, so true. In every level of sport, there are cheaters and it is completely possible for a crooked person to find that way, every single time.... Faked documents, steroids, french judges,corrupt government or paid off officials.... it's gonna happen. There is NO way to eliminate cheating from any sport. I don't mean it should be "accepted" but people have to stop the thinking of "stopping cheating 100%" (not possible) and focus on reducing it and getting the harshest punishment possible to those who are caught. The majority of people who would cheat would be (I assume) too lazy to go to the hassle of doing this or that to get that age ineligable kid on their team (therfor reducing the issues though not eliminating) cause lets face it, cheaters are lazy!! The few who would be masterminds of manipulation and diabolical about finding a way to cheat need to be run out of our sport. Period.

 

[spiritmama]

The other problem is responsibility. Who's responsibility is it to get the athletes age correct?

Before you say 'the gym' what happens if an athlete lies to the gym? What if the gym is innocent and the athlete did it to keep competing?

That is why the system should be setup so ONLY the athlete shoulders the responsibility of their age, because it is theirs. And a gym in no way shape or form can alter or change that age.

I was JUST about to post about this same thing.

Currently, in my opinion, it's MY job as a gym owner to get things right. Proof of age is required to register for my program. Period. I don't want to show up to any event, and someone throws out that susie is in fact to young for this team and too old for that one and then get in major trouble.... yes, it COULD still happen but its the only way I can make that possibilitry almost non exisistant, for MY program. Do I LIKE doing that? Heck no, its a royal pain in the you know what and I am forever chasing people for this and that.... but im protecting myself and my program.

Now, if a parent comes in to register Susie, went to the trouble to have a fake birth certificate, and fake everything else (Psyco cheer moooom!!), then yepp, it'll fall to my shoulders to carry the blame even though I did all I could do to protect my program. That is how I personally would feel. But, there should be NO consequences to the gym or owner if that parent has the little fake birth certificate with them to prove THEY in fact were cheaters, not the gym owner. Kid gets booted from the program permanatly. Public shaming towards the psyco mom to follow.

Athlete registration by the parent (if athlete is under 18) is the ONLY way to go. But it is still the gym owners responsibility to check those ages and what teams they are on. And THAT will become an issue too, I guarantee it.

I kinda feel like its a no win situation some days lol There is NO perfect solution, there will always be good ones, but those will always end up with their own, new, problems......

 

[ufomom]

Do any gyms require the athletes/parents to sign a statement that the proof of age that they provided is true and correct in addition to providing it? Seems like that would be a safeguard for a gym if there truly was an athlete bent on circumventing honesty. Just stuff that phrase into the agreement you have parents/athletes sign already.

 

[spiritmama]

Do any gyms require the athletes/parents to sign a statement that the proof of age that they provided is true and correct in addition to providing it? Seems like that would be a safeguard for a gym if there truly was an athlete bent on circumventing honesty. Just stuff that phrase into the agreement you have parents/athletes sign already.

I do!

 

[Mclovin]

A couple of opinions:

1) I do think that ultimate fault should fall upon the athlete IF the cheating was done by their or their parent's own malicious intent. HOWEVER, I do believe there are cases, or could be cases, where an athlete and/or their parents are unaware of the rules and how our system works and the coach/gym places that athlete on a team that they are not eligible for. In those cases, the gym needs to be held responsible, not the athlete. Example: Susie turned 12 on August 30th making her ineligible for a youth team, but owner/coach places her on youth team. If Susie and/or her parents aren't aware of the rules regarding ages, they would have no idea. THEY didn't provide dishonest information. The coach/gym abused the system. Don't punish the athlete in that instance. Punish the gym.

2) I believe that the punishment for cheating should "fit the crime". If it is a non-worlds team they should be stripped of all titles and/or placements won with the illegal athlete on the team AND that TEAM should be banned from competing for a certain period of time. For a first offense, maybe say three months; second offense a whole season; and so on. If the team was a level 5 team going for a bid, they should obviously be stripped of any bid they received, along with any titles/placements they received that season AND be banned from worlds for that year, possibly even 2 years for a first offense. It has to be harsh enough to make the gym/athlete NOT want to do it again.

3) Every gym should require a certified birth certificate be on file for each and every athlete in their gym. Not just a copy of a birth certificate. Kids have to have them for school so there's no reason why a parent shouldn't have one. I know people can alter birth certificates but I do believe it is a step in the right direction.

 

[quitthedrama]

The other problem is responsibility. Who's responsibility is it to get the athletes age correct?

Before you say 'the gym' what happens if an athlete lies to the gym? What if the gym is innocent and the athlete did it to keep competing?

That is why the system should be setup so ONLY the athlete shoulders the responsibility of their age, because it is theirs. And a gym in no way shape or form can alter or change that age.

I would think requiring an original birth certificate with raised seal would make it very difficult for someone to lie to the gym about their age

 

[King]

I would think requiring an original birth certificate with raised seal would make it very difficult for someone to lie to the gym about their age

most of the time people dont like to give originals, but copies.

 

[Mclovin]

most of the time people dont like to give originals, but copies.

Schools require originals. So they can get over it. lol I believe when my daughter played soccer years ago they required an original as well.

 

[socratesofcheer]

What do you think the penalties should be? Do you blame the athlete that did it, or the gym owner, or both?

Penalty = Beheading
Blame - Both parties, it takes two to tango.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

this is horrible and people are a mess one win is not worth losing your entire program over, because once exposed you will forever be known as the gym that cheated. the Event company should make them return their win and give it to the second place team and all the perks that go with it.

didn't cheer athletics wildcats have an issue.... no one remembers CA as the gym that cheats.
they gave up the paid bid. and went to another comp without this individual and got another one.

one person doesnt make or break a team. I can give plenty of examples where a star athlete was out and the team still did amazing.
I believe it is best to punish the athlete and the gym in a way that doesnt affect the other athletes.

there should be a fine involved with this. If you knew that cheating would result in a $5,000 fine, you wouldnt do it. And the gyms could also make athletes sign a waiver saying, if you knowingly falsify any documents that lead to a fine, you will solely be responsible.

Therefore it won't affect anyone else on the team. And yes i know $5,000 is a lot. But thats the point. People won't cheat if it will cost them a lot of money. That's an entire large team's tuiton for one month.