All-Star 2015 Worlds Packet

[Mamarazzi]

I think you're thinking of "Permanent Resident" which is green card (I have one). Legal resident to me means anyone who has a valid visa to be in the country, except probably tourists (you're not a resident when you're a tourist?). Work visa is unlikely, unless you happen to have a highly skilled job and the US needs you, or you got transfered within a multinational company @cheerkarli. So... I'm thinking student visa, au-pair visa or marrying / being engaged to someone are the only legal ways to stay in the US for cheer. I could be wrong though, it's been a while since I was obsessing over immigration issues.

I feel bad for them, but to be honest if they entered as tourists for max 90 days and overstayed, they are not too smart, with or without the new rules. I wish them the best though! If anyone affected is reading this, there are a few big immigration forums online where you can ask questions. People are experts on that subject, just like here lol.

Visitor/tourist visas can be quite lengthy. I can see an athlete having a green card if they're 18+, or if they participate in any moneymaking venture (uh, TV show, fundraising...)

 

[123jump4!]

Visitor/tourist visas can be quite lengthy. I can see an athlete having a green card if they're 18+, or if they participate in any moneymaking venture (uh, TV show, fundraising...)

You don't just get a green card that easily. It's usually through marriage and takes a while. Or you can get one through work but it needs to be highly skilled like an engineer. Not advertising Nfinities lol. Green card means you can stay indefinitely, as a "permanent resident". It's easier to get a visa, as mentioned in my post above. :)

 

[NerdMobile]

As a "green card" can be a pathway to citizenship it is not easily obtainable. The US has conditions, rules, regs, and a LONG wait for the permanent resident card. There are quotas for issuing every year and a lottery system in place- a foreign national cannot just decide to have a green card and obtain it. Even marriage to a US citizen can be an arduous process to obtain the appropriate documents- time consuming and expensive. Athletes can apply for the E class permanent residency it too may be time consuming (EB2 & 3).While a J1 visa is considered a student visa, they can also be obtained for internships- perhaps the easiest thing would be cheer coach interning ;) Maybe a b1/b2 visa which allows a visitor to stay for 180 days? The P class visa for athletes/entertainers seem like they could potentially be manipulated to fit the scenario...but certainly these all take time and require you to apply and obtain while IN your home country. This seems late in the season to making this requirement known.

 

[Mamarazzi]

You don't just get a green card that easily. It's usually through marriage and takes a while. Or you can get one through work but it needs to be highly skilled like an engineer. Not advertising Nfinities lol. Green card means you can stay indefinitely, as a "permanent resident". It's easier to get a visa, as mentioned in my post above. :)

I didn't say it was easy.
My main point is that IF athletes participate in income-generating activities, that adds another aspect to all this.




:)

 

[BlueCat]

I didn't say it was easy.
My main point is that IF athletes participate in income-generating activities, that adds another aspect to all this.

Agreed, but I don't believe it is something the USASF should be trying to regulate. That is more of an IRS/INS issue. USASF should only have have rules that have been publicly vetted and voted on by the membership, realistically enforceable, and directly relate to their stated mission. I don't think this rule is any of those things.

 

[Kelli Nicole]

Well, you can't be in the US undocumented and illegally. That was stupid on their part. But not letting athletes come and compete without residency is dumb. I don't understand why that's even an issue. If the athlete has the proper documentation, whether it's visa or what have you, they should be able to compete.

I am hoping the athletes in the country for the 2015 season have been grandfathered in.

My husband is from Germany, so we've gone through the whole immigration/visa nonsense. OK, it isn't really nonsense, it's just extremely aggravating due to the various sources of information for what it needed (or not).

To receive residency, you have to either have a green card or have been awarded residency as a holder of specific visa types after a certain period of time.

To get my husbands green card, it was over a year-long process. So these kids are definitely not applying for green cards to be in the country.

Anyway... a legal (alien) resident is typically someone with a greencard - this is a visa which permits a (long-term) residency in the U.S. for various reasons (work, marriage etc.).

There are a few visa types that receive residency status after a specific time period - e.g. F & J Student Visas receive residency after 5 years in the U.S.; J Non-Student Visas (scholars, teachers etc). receive it after 2 years and H-1 Visa holders are considered residents after they meet the "substantial presence" test.

 

[Kelli Nicole]

Haha that's funny. I does seem weird though since the laws are so strict regarding immigration. I feel like the best way is to go on a student visa and in that case this new rule shouldn't really be a problem :p

Not necessarily...In the eyes of the government and DHS and USCIS, a student visa does not equal resident status... you only get this on a student visa after 5 years.

If the USASF is just simply trying to say "these kids need to have sometype of documentation that says they are allowed to be here" the wording needs to change.

A a "legal student resident" doesn't exist really. Someone on a student visa, is a visitor and is only allowed to be in the US so long as they are in school and following all visa requirements...but they're not residents per se.

 

[Kelli Nicole]

I just realized that this not only applies to US gyms but also to every other gym, right? Does the USASF even realize how close everything in Europe is? For most people the closest worlds team will be in another country (or 2 or 3 over)... I don't know if people currently cross borders for a worlds team, but I do know that people do that to cheer.
Dear USASF: please use a map and think through your rules before publishing them! There are a lot of other legal ways to cheer with a gym in a foreign country other than being a legal resident or being there on a student visa (has the USASF ever heard of people working in a foreign country on a work visa for example?)

Correct, but at least within the EU you are considered a resident of all the other EU counties if you are living and working there... someone from France doesn't need a visa to go live and work in Germany.

 

[Nikaa]

Correct, but at least within the EU you are considered a resident of all the other EU counties if you are living and working there... someone from France doesn't need a visa to go live and work in Germany.

true. But if you don't have german passport you probably cant compete for german gym n I guess?
We have this rule at europeans and our nationals for few years now.

 

[Ashley]

Visitor/tourist visas can be quite lengthy. I can see an athlete having a green card if they're 18+, or if they participate in any moneymaking venture (uh, TV show, fundraising...)

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. Just because you tell the US Department of State that you'll have a job in the US doesn't mean they'll give you a work visa - it's generally the opposite. They want jobs to go to citizens, so a company usually has to show somehow that they can't get that work done with a citizen and thus need to sponsor this specific foreigner for a Visa.

I don't think that getting to be a in tv show means you'll be allowed to be here legally.

 

[Mamarazzi]

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. Just because you tell the US Department of State that you'll have a job in the US doesn't mean they'll give you a work visa - it's generally the opposite. They want jobs to go to citizens, so a company usually has to show somehow that they can't get that work done with a citizen and thus need to sponsor this specific foreigner for a Visa.

I don't think that getting to be a in tv show means you'll be allowed to be here legally.

BlueCat addressed what I was thinking- income issues, taxes, IRS/INS, which isn't a part of this newest rules debacle.

Where the heck is @BowCat 's opinion in all this?

 

[njallday]

i agree that outside of ICU, this shouldn't be a USASF thing. my guess is after that boy was banned from the country, while he was being detained/questioned/whatever he referred them to USASF to verify he was competing at worlds or something, thus making USASF look bad and/or kind of, sort of making it their problem. are visas and making sure you're here legally important? yes. extremely. but I say let it be the athlete's and coaches' gamble. it's serious, and I hope they follow the proper steps to doing everything legally, but I don't think the governing body of the sport should have a say in it for a gym to gym competition.


i still don't understand how the kids who aren't here legally get from competition to competition without being flagged and held at the airport. it doesn't matter if you're flying from California to Florida, if you shouldn't be in the country at all, they shouldn't let you get on a plane. are they driving cross country to avoid this if they're here illegally? i don't understand. but, i guess that's a conversation for another time.

 

[123jump4!]

i agree that outside of ICU, this shouldn't be a USASF thing. my guess is after that boy was banned from the country, while he was being detained/questioned/whatever he referred them to USASF to verify he was competing at worlds or something, thus making USASF look bad and/or kind of, sort of making it their problem. are visas and making sure you're here legally important? yes. extremely. but I say let it be the athlete's and coaches' gamble. it's serious, and I hope they follow the proper steps to doing everything legally, but I don't think the governing body of the sport should have a say in it for a gym to gym competition.

i still don't understand how the kids who aren't here legally get from competition to competition without being flagged and held at the airport. it doesn't matter if you're flying from California to Florida, if you shouldn't be in the country at all, they shouldn't let you get on a plane. are they driving cross country to avoid this if they're here illegally? i don't understand. but, i guess that's a conversation for another time.

Good point in your first paragraph. That sounds like it could be what happened. What if US immigration authorities ordered USASF to come out with this new rule?

As for your second paragraph I don't think that's a problem. For domestic flights they probably just look at the first page of your passport for ID purposes and don't look at the stamps and stuff. But I could be wrong. Interesting. I guess they could always drive or take a greyhound bus or something. Ugh...

By the way, if you overstay your 90 days as a tourist, you usually get banned for entering the US again for 3 years. That might not be so bad if you're done cheering anyway. :(

 

[Aussiekat]

BlueCat addressed what I was thinking- income issues, taxes, IRS/INS, which isn't a part of this newest rules debacle.

Where the heck is @BowCat 's opinion in all this?

I'm with @BlueCat and not just because I like cats. It's an individual's responsibility to get their documentation sorted. This rule and its ambiguity potentially stops anyone else from getting the experience that I had, and all the other Aussies that have taken the time (and saved the money) to be able to learn and bring knowledge back to our own gyms. It's shortsighted, exclusionary and outside the realm of governance of the USASF. It does nothing to help grow the sport or keep athletes safe.

Also, it's extremely difficult for someone entering the U.S. to do so illegally. Overstay a visa or visa waiver? Yes. But you have to be a fool to not know that overstaying a visa is a bad idea in any country (and also be surrounded by uninformed fools).


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[pochantas22]

Do you think it's fair that the athletes from out if country go on homeschooling when they arrive here to cheer?