All-Star Amazing Level 2 Teams?

[canz]

heres the video

I can understand how other teams would be really disappointed and feel it is unfair that they competed against a team with level 3 and 4 athletes on it however I think the problem lies with a loop hole in the rules. I guess what we have here is a good old case of what is technically right according to the rules versus what the intention or spirit of the rules are. On a side note, irrespective of the tumbling level of the individual athletes in the video, I just want to say that they have lovely tumbling technique and I did really enjoy watching their tumble.

 

[TheUltimateFan]

OK, so program-specific battering aside, where do we stand with a proposed solution?

• Athlete Registration. Somewhere early in the season (Sept-Oct-Nov?), athletes are registered with USASF, declaring their skill level as part of registration.
• From that point, an athlete can compete only up or down ONE level.
• 2/3 of any team registered for a competition must be on record with USASF as being AT the level the team registers. The other 1/3 can be athletes that are eligible at that level, based on the up 1/down 1 rule. NO exceptions allowed. (e.g. a team that registers as level 3 must have 2/3 of the athletes registered as Level 3 , may have 1/3 of the athletes on the team that are registered as Level 2 or Level 4)
• Athletes who increase their skills a full level within any season are accomodated by the 'up 1' condition.
• USASF programs can choose not to participate in competitions where the rules are not adhered to by non-USASF programs. There is an opportunity for any EP to choose to enforce the USASF standard.
• Small gyms are accomodated both by the +1/-1 ruling and by the fact that a team that doesn't have the maximum number of participants can be successful.

So now, start tearing this apart. If you work through all of the possible challenges here that could be raised AT USASF, you walk in the door with the strongest case possible.

 

[TwistersPride]

OK, so program-specific battering aside, where do we stand with a proposed solution?

[*]Athlete Registration. Somewhere early in the season (Sept-Oct-Nov?), athletes are registered with USASF, declaring their skill level as part of registration.
[*]From that point, an athlete can compete only up or down ONE level.
[*]2/3 of any team registered for a competition must be on record with USASF as being AT the level the team registers. The other 1/3 can be athletes that are eligible at that level, based on the up 1/down 1 rule. NO exceptions allowed. (e.g. a team that registers as level 3 must have 2/3 of the athletes registered as Level 3 , may have 1/3 of the athletes on the team that are registered as Level 2 or Level 4)
[*]Athletes who increase their skills a full level within any season are accomodated by the 'up 1' condition.
[*]USASF programs can choose not to participate in competitions where the rules are not adhered to by non-USASF programs. There is an opportunity for any EP to choose to enforce the USASF standard.
[*]Small gyms are accomodated both by the +1/-1 ruling and by the fact that a team that doesn't have the maximum number of participants can be successful.

So now, start tearing this apart. If you work through all of the possible challenges here that could be raised AT USASF, you walk in the door with the strongest case possible.

Any thoughts on how to accomidate last minute crossovers (ie injuries in warm up, someone doesnt show up, etc)? If its a competition that I only take my J2 and S4 and I need a last minute fill in for Seniors, am I out of luck?

 

[5-6-7-8]

Any thoughts on how to accomidate last minute crossovers (ie injuries in warm up, someone doesnt show up, etc)? If its a competition that I only take my J2 and S4 and I need a last minute fill in for Seniors, am I out of luck?

I was going to say the same thing. If it is a last second replacement, i would be more than OK with any level replacement.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

So how are "last minute replacements" determined?

 

[mommadonna]

Love, love, love!!!! :jawdrop:

 

[TheUltimateFan]

Any thoughts on how to accomidate last minute crossovers (ie injuries in warm up, someone doesnt show up, etc)? If its a competition that I only take my J2 and S4 and I need a last minute fill in for Seniors, am I out of luck?

Unfortunately, as we have all seen, if you allow a loophole someone will slither through it, claiming an injury. The optimal situation would be that one of your J2s was a registered Level 3 and could compete up. If not, the team is downsized.

Unless someone has a solid way to control this? However, if you still had 2/3 of your team at true level, maybe it wouldn't matter?

 

[Jo Mallory]

they make level 2 look fierce! i loved it!

 

[mommadonna]

Sparks is bringing a junior 2 to NCA also that has at least 6+ level 5 athletes plus lots of level 3 athletes also so I heard. They competed last weekend.

If people keep doing this kind of thing, I can see a tough future for all star cheer. Who wants to go compete honestly if everyone cheats? Eventually kids will figure out that they can do better at dance or soccer, or they will stay in school cheer. All you gym owners and business people out there who are trying to run honest businesses that enhance the lives of the kids you serve need to get together and work to put a stop to this nonsense, or you won't have businesses left to run. I've said it before and I'll say it again: What are we teaching our kids? When they go out into the workplace, are they going to go for the mediocre so they can experience more success? I can just hear it now: "Oh, I have a masters' degree, but I think I'm going to work in a job that only requires a bachelors'. That way, I'll always do better than my peers." What happened to shooting for the stars? I'm so sick of seeing our society rewarding mediocrity. You're working with KIDS, people!!! Get it together, for goodness sake! Okay. Rant over. Resume your awesome level 2 thread.

 

[Num1Stunta]

Hes right :) We had 9 girls on seniors 3 at Jam Live and 10 at Jamfest Nationals.... Both times we took Small Senior 3 and Level 3 Grand Champs. Small teams are not a disadvantage if you know your score sheet and level your athletes appropriatley. Well and hardworking, fierce athletes help too :) congrats again to Jewels! Love those girls!

Can you post a video? Good for you, I've always been such a huge proponent of small, skill-appropriate teams:)

 

[drewpate]

I wasnt going to say anything but....
The rockstar j2 routine was sick, but be honest people shouldn't be angry. The skills are on par with what they should be for a j2. Tumbling was good but nothing mind blowing, stunts were where they should be, and they are a beatable team. They did have great choreo in the running tumbling though.

Call me cynical but if you're a good coach that is a very beatable team especially since they only had a limited amount of time, plus it's not like we're talking having all of top gun's boys drop down to two here. If more people worried about doing their homework and coaching their own teams to the level they should be, sandbagging wouldn't matter. (not saying rockstar is sandbagging) the only advantage I see rock star having even with this stacked j2 team is they are just good coaches, I've never met any of them personally and couldn't vouch for that, but routines speak for themselves.

Personally I take pride in the fact that if you watched most of the teams in my gym tumbling right now you might think we were sandbagging. If You teach your tumbling right it should look like this teams, and your kids will progress faster, be safer, you'll have higher level teams, and if you run your business right, your size will grow. It's a matter of putting in the time, paying your dues, and have a little talent along the way. If I had a j2, which I don't, id love to compete against this team and I would even bet they could win or come really close, and if they lost, well I got out coached so it's back to the drawing board and it won't happen again. If you can't hang in your level maybe you're in the wrong one.


Sorry to be on a soapbox but I'm tired of seeing everyone whine about what the 'big guys' are doing when if they learned from the big guys they wouldn't be the little guy. .

 

[Num1Stunta]

OK, so I was tardy for the party on this thread, for those of you who saw my post in the cheersport results thread. Now that I've finally read through it, I don't know how much more I can offer. I will say this, which I don't think has been mentioned yet. A level 4 athlete throwing a Level 2 routine is much better conditioned than a "true"level 2 kid, and therefore able to perform better technique and skills, not just because they've already been perfected, but because they don't get as tired performing at that level. And frankly, to use the "well, it was only 12 practices" rationalization is nonsense. Last year, I had my level 2 kids split into groups and make a level 1 routine for fun, and we gave a reward to the best group. They had 20 minutes. You're not going to tell me that with 12 practices, a gym like Rockstar couldn't pull a decent level 3 out of that group.

I do believe that athlete registration is necessary, but I don't like the idea of registering for a team, because that doesn't necessarily equal their skill level. I think your skills should be evaluated in STUNTS, RUNNING TUMBLING, STANDING TUMBLING, TOSSES, JUMPS, MOTIONS/DANCE ability. Everything would be scored from 1-5. So, example:

Athlete X can fly level 4 (4), has a layout (4), no standing tuck (3), mediocre jumps (3), great dancer (5)... that averages out to 3.8, round to the nearest decimal and she's a LEVEL 4. This would be her registered level with USASF for that season, and it would mean she could be eligible for a Level 3, 4, or 5 team.

Registering her with a team would not work if her gym doesn't offer a Level 4 team, and she's placed on a Level 3 team. This would mean she'd be considered level 3, which imo creates a problem because then she could technically cross to a level 2 team. Then, you have a level 4 athlete on a level 2 team, in actuality... but on paper, she's level 3 so its fine. Make sense?

 

[gymcatmomx2]

OK, so I was tardy for the party on this thread, for those of you who saw my post in the cheersport results thread. Now that I've finally read through it, I don't know how much more I can offer. I will say this, which I don't think has been mentioned yet. A level 4 athlete throwing a Level 2 routine is much better conditioned than
Registering her with a team would not work if her gym doesn't offer a Level 4 team, and she's placed on a Level 3 team. This would mean she'd be considered level 3, which imo creates a problem because then she could technically cross to a level 2 team. Then, you have a level 4 athlete on a level 2 team, in actuality... but on paper, she's level 3 so its fine. Make sense?

I like your thoughts on this and it does make sense. I also want to point out that for small gyms, there will be athletes who are on a Senior level 4 team but may not even have level 2 skills but are on the level 4 team because of their age. There are quite a few "cheer nuggets" in small gyms and there always will be. What would do with these athletes?

 

[GreatWhite92]

I like your thoughts on this and it does make sense. I also want to point out that for small gyms, there will be athletes who are on a Senior level 4 team but may not even have level 2 skills but are on the level 4 team because of their age. There are quite a few "cheer nuggets" in small gyms and there always will be. What would do with these athletes?

I posted an idea on how to fix this in its own thread in order to stop hijacking this one...the main concept is averaging the levels that way you can have any level athletes you want but must compete at the averaged level credentialing...the full explanation is there...

 

[gymcatmomx2]

I posted an idea on how to fix this in its own thread in order to stop hijacking this one...the main concept is averaging the levels that way you can have any level athletes you want but must compete at the averaged level credentialing...the full explanation is there...

Oops my bad :oops: