OT Bring It!

[FruityPebbles]

I'm not making any excuses for Abby, but formal dance can give a person a professional career. As far as I know, there is no professional route for majorette strutting. When participating in something that can enable you to go professional and you are extremely skilled and committed to it, you have to make tough decisions early in life. Normal childhood or training 25-40 hrs a week? Normal schooling or homeschooling? Majorette strutting can take you to college, which fits more easily into a normal life path.

I Agree and disagree with you, I know that does not make sense, but I am seeing this style a lot with the young people now. Let's think back Hip Hop was not a recognize dance form not long ago and now it is recognized and every respectable dance studio is teaching it and Hip Hop dancers are In big demand.... I see the same thing happening with this little known dance form too...

 

[cheer25mom]

I Agree and disagree with you, I know that does not make sense, but I am seeing this style a lot with the young people now. Let's think back Hip Hop was not a recognize dance form not long ago and now it is recognized and every respectable dance studio is teaching it and Hip Hop dancers are In big demand.... I see the same thing happening with this little known dance form too...

I just don't. Hip Hop dancers without any other technique are in demand in a very small niche market, music videos. Classical dancers who can do hip hop are much more marketable. They still need classical dance technique to really go anywhere. These girls aren't getting that. I cannot see anyone making a career out of this style of dance because it isn't going to translate to a stage, a film, or anywhere else other than the occasional music video that would use it. The overall technique just isn't polished enough to be marketable in today's professional dance climate.

I don't see it as a little known dance form either. I have known about and seen it my entire life.

 

[cheer25mom]

I do not know, if it is a cultural thing... But Dianne's style of discipline is a world different from Abby... For example, in one of the episode, she was yelling at Sunjai about the stand battle and putting some pressure on her to do it... In pass episodes, Dianne never put pressure on Sunjai, she normally just cut her and it is over... But she allowed Sunjai to beg Kayla to help her and put her on the stand battle even after being cut initially... Dianne knew Sunjai could do it and she pushed her until she did it herself....

I think this 2nd season is showing the more family like atmosphere of the dance studio... Another example, this season, she allow Sunjai to miss a competition to attend her Prom and Kayla to miss an important practice before a competition so she can go to her Prom...If I had to choose a great motivator of the 2 coaches - Miss Dianne's style wins out over Abby's...

I just see yelling as yelling, and not the way to motivate anyone long term. It may get results now, but eventually people get tired of being yelled at and quit or become desensitized to it. I don't like the way she seems to just fly off the handle and get angry. Abby does the same thing. I don't ever think getting angry and taking it out on kids is ok.

 

[FruityPebbles]

I again agree and disagree with your statements cheer25mom...
I mentioned the areas I agree with first... If you are watching the program this season - you will see that Dianne, the Instructor is talking more and more about the girls studying other dance styles and I believe, in the 2-3 episodes, the girls had moved away from just the majorette style and more toward a competition that required them to do lyrical style of dancing and in that show, Dianne was upset because Kayla refused to tryout for anything else, and only wanted to participate in Hip Hop and the Majorette styles competition and her leadership on the squad was called because of her limited range... In the episodes that the girls are doing lyrical and/or modern dancing (I think) Cameryn had taking the lead and 2 younger girls on the squad (I think, this might be the future of the squad) and Miss Dianne is talking more to the girls about learning different diverse dancing styles and her regrets about not stretching herself as a dancer enough. The end of that episode, Miss Dianne pulled Kayla in a private meeting and told her, how disappointed she was in her not even trying other dance styles and told her if Kayla was planning to be a choreographer and/or dance instructor one day, she will need to learn all dance styles, particularly, ballet. (I have reservations about all these girls, who unfortunately are getting such a late start in dance - trying to make careers and even learning classical dance styles at 13-14 age...(Everybody is not like successful Misty Coleman, the ballerina who started at 13) Most of these girls do not have the dancers' body and to talk and convinced them that can be professional dancers is unrealistic goal. Maybe these girls can learn different styles in order to be choreographer, yes!

Again, I disagree that this dance style is not a viable option and limited... just like Hip Hop, which been around since the 1970s, this style had circulated for a long time from Marching bands from 1950s at HBCU and I remember, being in a Marching band in the 1980s in NJ performing this style of high step marching, dancing and playing our instruments at the same time... Everything is evolving... We see that with cheerleading...

 

[cheer25mom]

@FruityPebbles , you are right, Misty Coleman is unique in the dance world. You just don't see someone take up classical ballet at 13 and succeed with it. I haven't seen the episode you are talking about, but I think it would be good for these girls to branch out. I hope they are bringing in trained instructors in these styles. Anyone can benefit from diversifying their training, but you are correct that if they are just starting to get real technique at 13-14 they aren't likely to have professional success. I do think that if their instructor truly wants them to be well rounded, she is going to have to bring in trained instructors in other styles. I commend her for wanting to diversify, and I hope she provides quality instruction to do it. I think her dancers could really benefit.

A career in choreography requires just as much technique as a career as a dancer. In order to choreograph and teach dance, you HAVE to have an understanding of the underlying technique. You can't just make it up as you go and hope to be successful. Also, you cannot teach a style you aren't proficient in. CP's ballet teacher owns the studio, but she makes no attempt to teach jazz or hip hop because she knows she doesn't have enough background in those techniques. She hires quality instruction in those areas.

 

[FruityPebbles]

@FruityPebbles , you are right, Misty Coleman is unique in the dance world. You just don't see someone take up classical ballet at 13 and succeed with it. I haven't seen the episode you are talking about, but I think it would be good for these girls to branch out. I hope they are bringing in trained instructors in these styles. Anyone can benefit from diversifying their training, but you are correct that if they are just starting to get real technique at 13-14 they aren't likely to have professional success. I do think that if their instructor truly wants them to be well rounded, she is going to have to bring in trained instructors in other styles. I commend her for wanting to diversify, and I hope she provides quality instruction to do it. I think her dancers could really benefit.

A career in choreography requires just as much technique as a career as a dancer. In order to choreograph and teach dance, you HAVE to have an understanding of the underlying technique. You can't just make it up as you go and hope to be successful. Also, you cannot teach a style you aren't proficient in. CP's ballet teacher owns the studio, but she makes no attempt to teach jazz or hip hop because she knows she doesn't have enough background in those techniques. She hires quality instruction in those areas.

I definitely agree with you about the professional dancers, but I can see someone like Kayla, who does not have the dancer's body and getting a late start in the dancing business - learn classical ballet and other styles, but choose the choreographer's role... like the women on the dance show 'So You Think You Can Dance'- Mia Michaels and Sonia Rios (she has a different surname, but I do not know her marry name) these women definitely do not have the dancer's body, but are some great choreographers and put together some nice dances.

If you go back to the 2nd and 3rd episode, you will see that Miss Dianne had Cameryn, Cristianna and 2 other girls, who are not the features players in the studio) dancing lyrical and was working on their technique of pointed toes, etc... In the 1st show of this season, the Dancing Dolls lost to a squad from Florida, who were more polish in lyrical dancing and that teacher for the squad talked a lot about her girls having dance training. Miss Dianne having that woe and victim position of having girls who are unfortunate and not given a chance. But you know what, I think that the Baby Dolls can get a good foundation in dance now. In addition, the 1st episode, they show Cameryn being turned down to go to a School for the Arts and it appears that she will be taking lessons in ballet, etc... to improve her chances of getting in next year, the show does not mentioned if she will receive this training at Dancing Dolls Factory...

 

[cheer25mom]

I definitely agree with you about the professional dancers, but I can see someone like Kayla, who does not have the dancer's body and getting a late start in the dancing business - learn classical ballet and other styles, but choose the choreographer's role... like the women on the dance show 'So You Think You Can Dance'- Mia Michaels and Sonia Rios (she has a different surname, but I do not know her marry name) these women definitely do not have the dancer's body, but are some great choreographers and put together some nice dances.

If you go back to the 2nd and 3rd episode, you will see that Miss Dianne had Cameryn, Cristianna and 2 other girls, who are not the features players in the studio) dancing lyrical and was working on their technique of pointed toes, etc... In the 1st show of this season, the Dancing Dolls lost to a squad from Florida, who were more polish in lyrical dancing and that teacher for the squad talked a lot about her girls having dance training. Miss Dianne having that woe and victim position of having girls who are unfortunate and not given a chance. But you know what, I think that the Baby Dolls can get a good foundation in dance now. In addition, the 1st episode, they show Cameryn being turned down to go to a School for the Arts and it appears that she will be taking lessons in ballet, etc... to improve her chances of getting in next year, the show does not mentioned if she will receive this training at Dancing Dolls Factory...

Sonia and Mia don't have the bodies to be professional dancers, but they have both done extensive study in dance technique. We are talking decades. You HAVE to understand and be proficient in the technique to effectively choreograph it. It's not as easy as it looks. You have to understand dance physiology and how technical aspects connect to create movement that flows and keep your dancers safe. You also need all of that to teach. Just like we wouldn't let a non certified cheer coach without a clue what proper progression is teach our kids to stunt and tumble I don't think anyone without extensive technique training in a particular dance style should be teaching it. It is a safety issue IMO.

 

[FruityPebbles]

Cheer25mom...Yes, I understand all the things you mentioned and that is why in the show, Ms. Dianna had a talk with Kayla about what is expected if she wanted to be a dancer and mentioned many of the things in your post... It was a very real conversation between the Dance Instructor and her Student....

When you watch that program( I think, episode 2 or 3), Kayla was talking more about going to college and study Dance as a major, which I imagine probably teach the physiology of movement and the basics of Dance and Technique for teaching dance...

In addition, like I said before, Ms. Dianna talks like she wants to take Kayla under her wings -as a Mentor and Kayla this season has been working more with the Baby Dance Dolls, hence the reason I thought, Ms. Dianna might be grooming her to take over this little dance troupe.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

I watched this last night. I really just can't understand the dance style. It looks like something you'd do at a club, not a competition. I'm also confused how they gave glory to God and danced in his name and then went on the floor and practically twerked. I can 100% appreciate hip hop, but I just can't find where any sort of technique comes into this type of dance.

I might just be a sheltered northerner. This is NOT a thing up here in MD.

 

[cheer25mom]

I watched this last night. I really just can't understand the dance style. It looks like something you'd do at a club, not a competition. I'm also confused how they gave glory to God and danced in his name and then went on the floor and practically twerked. I can 100% appreciate hip hop, but I just can't find where any sort of technique comes into this type of dance.

I might just be a sheltered northerner. This is NOT a thing up here in MD.

This is the point I am trying to make. I was trying to avoid laying it all out like this, but now that someone has yes it is basically club dancing and no matter how much is said about technique there is none and the studio director is not qualified to teach any. Unless she brings in other instructors, it will never happen and college is just too late to start with no technique and make a go of it. Most dance programs aren't going to admit these girls as dance majors because it is impossible for them to be successful and graduate from those programs. No matter what they say, no one at that studio is qualified to teach any technique that will get those girls anywhere in the professional dance world. They can say they want them to have proper technique all day, but when it comes right down to it they are going to have to leave this studio to get it. I really feel like all of them are clueless about what it really takes for a career in the dance world, and all the talking about it in the world doesn't change that.

 

[astaley22]

I won't comment on their style of dance because it's not something I'm familiar with.

However, as far as comparing Dianne to Abby, Dianne definitely doesn't have the harsh and favoritism based style Abby does. I would much prefer Dianne's because although she does correct the girls and give them "tough love" sometimes, she doesn't do it in the rude and demeaning way Abby does. I think a lot of that comes from the fact that she has a child of her own. She probably understands the negative impact that some of the comments Abby makes can have on a child. You can create students that have a good work ethic and a thick skin without completely tearing them apart in the way that we see(because I'm aware she might teach differently without cameras) Abby teach. Also, it seems that there is no "Maddie" on DD. Yes, Kayla is seen as a leader because she IS the captain of the team and in charge of what stands they do. But it doesn't seem like she compares the girls to Kayla as much as Abby does to Maddie

 

[Just-a-Mom]

This is the point I am trying to make. I was trying to avoid laying it all out like this, but now that someone has yes it is basically club dancing and no matter how much is said about technique there is none and the studio director is not qualified to teach any. Unless she brings in other instructors, it will never happen and college is just too late to start with no technique and make a go of it. Most dance programs aren't going to admit these girls as dance majors because it is impossible for them to be successful and graduate from those programs. No matter what they say, no one at that studio is qualified to teach any technique that will get those girls anywhere in the professional dance world. They can say they want them to have proper technique all day, but when it comes right down to it they are going to have to leave this studio to get it. I really feel like all of them are clueless about what it really takes for a career in the dance world, and all the talking about it in the world doesn't change that.

This. I didn't want to say it either, but here it is.

I can't watch the show because the technique (or lack thereof) kills me. This isn't dance. It has nothing to do with regional style, or just "it's the style" - it isn't something that will take them anywhere (other than maybe a drumline - or whatever they call it - in college). It's club dancing - which is great, in a club. But it's definitely not "dance" that you would see in a performing arts/dance major.

No one on this show is going on to study dance in college. Rude, but true.

(just an aside though - Misty Copeland is not as abnormal as the marketing geniuses behind her would have the world believe. I work with a LOT of professional dancers that started when they were over 12 - some as old as 19 or 20. More of them than professional dancers that started at age 3-5, actually. To clarify, when I say "professional" I mean their primary source of income is dance, meaning they are successful and earning a good living in performing. So it can - and often does - happen. But most of them have natural talent, and jumped right in to full time training in all styles. I don't see it for these girls because the raw talent and training just isn't there.)

Everyone knows I'm a ballet person all day long, so I'm biased... But I cannot imagine someone thinking they were going to be in any type of dance profession without ballet as a foundation.

 

[cheer25mom]

As to Misty Copeland. I know a lot of professional dancers that started later in life, but I don't know of very many working in classical ballet, particularly as soloists, that started that late. The ones I know of tend to be on other styles of dance. Are there really a lot of working ballerinas with major ballet companies who didn't start any kind of training until their teens?

 

[njallday]

As to Misty Copeland. I know a lot of professional dancers that started later in life, but I don't know of very many working in classical ballet, particularly as soloists, that started that late. The ones I know of tend to be on other styles of dance. Are there really a lot of working ballerinas with major ballet companies who didn't start any kind of training until their teens?

not that this is a super legitimate source but: Beginner Ballerina: Professional Dancers who Started as TEENS #2 numerous prima ballerinas have started later in life. granted, you NEED raw talent to get that good but it is completely possible. i think there's also less burnout that works in the dancer's favor. when you start at 3, you might be bored by 16 and want to quit. starting at 3 also means, more than likely, your mom made the decision that you were going to be a ballerina for you. starting at a later age means it was your decision to dance and you are going to be more passionate and driven about dance.

and to echo everyone else - you may hate ballet. you may never be a ballerina. you may never want to be a ballerina. but you will not get very far in the dance industry without a ballet background. EVERYTHING stems from it. do you need to be a prima ballerina to excel at hip-hop dancing? no, but i can walk into a hip-hop dance competition and tell you which dancers were classically trained and most likely, they will win the competition. even outside of dance - when i did gymnastics, as we got into higher levels the program "strongly encouraged" a few hours of ballet a week. one of my best friends growing up was on the fast track to become an olympic figure skater (up until she got pregnant in high school) but anywho - she was homeschooled and was on the ice all morning, did her schooling in the afternoon, and was in a dance studio doing ballet all night. it wasn't optional. minimum she had to have 6 hours a week and ballet wasn't even her goal. it makes a drastic improvement in posture and body awareness alone.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

As to Misty Copeland. I know a lot of professional dancers that started later in life, but I don't know of very many working in classical ballet, particularly as soloists, that started that late. The ones I know of tend to be on other styles of dance. Are there really a lot of working ballerinas with major ballet companies who didn't start any kind of training until their teens?

Agree with you here. More of the ones I know are jazz dancers, but still started later in life. But we definitely have a few on our staff that are ballerinas that started at 13-15 years old (although they are not at Misty's level, career wise, for sure - but they are working as ballet dancers and earning a living.

Completely agree with everything @njallday said - word for word that's pretty much what I was about to post.