All-Star For The Judges

[King]

The only way one could max out tumbling is for an entire squad to perform standing doubles, and all perform running specialty to doubles. and that would be just to max out difficulty. Obviously with this tumbling the execution is bound to drop from perfect.
The reason I can define this is because that the rules state a limit to the number of twist. Being that no matter what a Double is as good as it gets.

Judges NEVER score by the "what team is before, and what team is next" system as much as people like to say we do.
we score what is right in front of us. And lets give an example of a "perfect scenario"
TEAM 1: Standing squad doubles, running squad doubles executed perfect. = 9.0 difficulty, 1.0 execution (10.0)
TEAM 2: Standing squad doubles, running squad doubles executed perfect. = 9.0 difficulty, 1.0 execution (10.0)
Both did the same thing and maxed out the score sheet.
the deciding factors then would be the other portions of the score sheet in which are highly unlikely to max out.

So what you are saying is at a certain point trying new or more difficult stuff that is light years ahead of everyone else has extremely small gains in the score (one of my points). In the end it is better to be slightly better than the pack in difficulty, but not light years ahead.

And to your example:

Team 1: Standing squad doubles, running squad doubles executed perfectly.
Team 2: standing squad (minus 1 person) doubles, running squad doubles (minus 1) executed perfectly. That one person NOT tumbling is standing in the middle front of the floor making it obvious they are not tumbling.

Is that worth the exact same?

If worth the same, the extra difficulty is not worth it because there is no reward.

But in practicality would a judge find a way to not allow them to max out in some little way, then how your competition does do matters.

 

[Deleted member 15]

**stands on chair and applauds** Jennaw, you had me at hello. LOL!!! But seriously, thank you for that breakdown. I think it helps us all to chill out and accept our placing knowing that you guys have such a hard job and work at it so earnestly. Honestly, I don't know how you don't run screaming from the arena after hearing "Firework" and "Only Girl (in the World)" a hundred times a competition. :)

We usually just have a side bet for how many times a song will be played. Closest without going over wins.

 

[cheercoachz]

We usually just have a side bet for how many times a song will be played. Closest without going over wins.

OOOO OOOO is there a PRIZE?

 

[Deleted member 15]

OOOO OOOO is there a PRIZE?

$10 per guess. Winner takes all.

 

[King]

-The answer to you number 1 is above
-As for your number 2, We have an execution score, Max 1.0 and in level 5 the judges are VERY critical of this One point.
-for you number 3, we do have a "bonus" section, and that section would be overall performance, and creativity. This is where we award points for the entire routine, its could be stunts, it could be jumps, it could be because a girl danced like shakira on the front row. This section is where the team is really rewarded. We take into consideration the crowd appeal, energy, and confidence as a team and anything that might of really made that team shine.

I don't think the judges are unqualified or not trying to do their job. I think they are doing the best they can in a flawed system. Varsity has the 'least' flawed out of all of them, but it is still flawed.

One of the reasons I don't think scoresheets should be released is because it would expose the flaws in the system and then place all the blame on the judges (bad judging was mentioned QUITE often at the NACCC.. almost to the point of a joke). The solution I have pondered is donated scoresheets (minus comments) to the board to be easily posted. If all the major gyms would agree to donate the scoresheets after the competition to show how they did what the did and what scored what I think a lot of people would learn how and why things score the way they do. And it would also cause a lot of distrust in the ability of judges, but I am not sure there is another way to improve the system.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

Now I do. Y5 seems to strike a cord with quite a few people.

It ain't over till the fat lady sings on youth. But good discussion here, very nice.

 

[King]

It ain't over till the fat lady sings on youth. But good discussion here, very nice.

I am gonna say I don't think they will get rid of youth 5. Just restrict it. Remember all our voting are suggestions to the board, they have no real power (per se).

 

[StarshipTrooper]

I am gonna say I don't think they will get rid of youth 5. Just restrict it. Remember all our voting are suggestions to the board, they have no real power (per se).

At a minimum, I'll bet you are dead on.

 

[NJ Coach]

One of the reasons I don't think scoresheets should be released is because it would expose the flaws in the system and then place all the blame on the judges (bad judging was mentioned QUITE often at the NACCC.. almost to the point of a joke). The solution I have pondered is donated scoresheets (minus comments) to the board to be easily posted. If all the major gyms would agree to donate the scoresheets after the competition to show how they did what the did and what scored what I think a lot of people would learn how and why things score the way they do. And it would also cause a lot of distrust in the ability of judges, but I am not sure there is another way to improve the system.

SpiritFest included a division breakdown with scoresheets. On the breakdown, it included all scores in all sections of the scoresheet for all teams. It was nice being able to see who was beating you in what sections, or where you were coming out on top. I found it helpful on knowing where our biggest improvements needed to be for Day 2, as well as future competitions. I don't think I heard any negative comments about the breakdown the entire weekend. I think more companies can adopt this without drama. It was refreshing to know where exactly we stood on all areas of our routine compared to our competition.

 

[King]

SpiritFest included a division breakdown with scoresheets. On the breakdown, it included all scores in all sections of the scoresheet for all teams. It was nice being able to see who was beating you in what sections, or where you were coming out on top. I found it helpful on knowing where our biggest improvements needed to be for Day 2, as well as future competitions. I don't think I heard any negative comments about the breakdown the entire weekend. I think more companies can adopt this without drama. It was refreshing to know where exactly we stood on all areas of our routine compared to our competition.

I would love it. Like I said, though. You can do the same thing on here if you have a non-partisan group willing to take copies of the scoresheets and make the comparisons for you and all to see.

 

[Deleted member 15]

I hope everyone knows I was kidding about song pool, but I do have an idea for a game that can be played by the spectators.

 

[King]

I hope everyone knows I was kidding about song pool, but I do have an idea for a game that can be played by the spectators.

Does it involve beverages? And is it illegal to use Miley Cyrus as the game would be over by noon...

 

[Jennaw]

There is this kinda unspoken level of awesome (we will call it) that teams need to be around to win. If a team goes above and beyond this level all their difficulty and hard work may not be rewarded that well.... UNLESS the judges were aware of the team blowing away the current accepted level of awesome.

What if the team with the standing doubles was 'known' to all the judges and all the judges were aware they were competing and doing these skills (very well I might add!) they would probably still put, say TG in the highest category, but would probalby not max them out (I am not picking on them obviously, they are just a good example).

TG would get the comment - add more standing doubles to max out (hah).

So my point is if you were about to do something revolutionary and mind blowing make sure you send a tape to all the Worlds judges?

There is not secret "Unspoken level of Awesomeness" We score the team in front of us, not compared the team before or after.
The key to these teams success is the highly under-appreciated
10 points given out for performance, and the 10 points given out for skills, and routine creativity.
Teams focus SO much on having the BEST sequence, and the BEST tumbling, that they either:
1. Worried the entire year about hitting stunts, that their entire routine has became centered around them, therefor scoring low in both performance, and choreography because you had time to teach sally a full up, tik-tok... but not a basic "high v".
2. They might have a WELL built routine, and choreography, but Become so concerned about hitting stunts, and landing tumbling, when something goes wrong, and sally drops her double full up, and jane puts her knees down after her double the rest of the routine just falls apart because they have it in their mind that stunts and tumbling are the only thing that count. And if you look at EVERY level 5 team, whats one of the first elements that you do? Tumbling and stunts.
Therefor these teams are either going to make or break themselves within the first 30 seconds on the floor.

This brings me to my personal opinion why I watched World Cup fall apart from the judges stand this past sunday. (NO I WAS NOT JUDGING them at the time, I had judged earlier and came back to watch)
They are a WELL coached and AMAZINGLY well choreographed team, but like all level 5's stunts are ALWAYS one of the first things in the routine. The pressure these girls must face is unimaginable! The entire arena expects perfection, and an amazing performance. These girls KNOW that they are Amazing, but they also knew what part of the routine they have trouble with..... They came out AMAZING, standing tumbling looked good, energy was high.... and when they dropped those 5 stunts, and heard the crowd make the "OOOOOOOOOOOO" sound, the girls energy and performance was all downhill from that point.

This is where stingray nails it every time. (not just them, but using them for an example)
They focus on EVERY aspect of the routine.
Their stunts might not be hard, but they are guaranteed to max out execution.
They only perform stunts they know that they can hit 9 out of 10 times. Everything is SAFE, and can be executed perfectly, thats how they make up for those difficulty points.
Fictional example:
WCSS does 9 double up to stretch, tik-tok to scorp. Lets say they all hit, no deductions but are very shaky and body positions are not properly executed due to right leg flexibility. They look scared in the air, and are not confident till the end of the stunt.
StingR: does 9 full up to stretches (left), double down reload, into tik-tok (switch kick) from the ground. (I call them switch ups). They all hit, and are all SOLID. flexibility was amazing, and confidence was high throughout the entire sequence.

The way I would score would be (and keep in mind, I am a VERY low scoring judge, and these scores are fictional)
WCSS- 8.8 difficulty .5 execution 9.3 total Performance 9.5 RC:4.8 SC: 4.8 TOTAL 19.1
StingR-8.5 difficulty 1.0 execution 9.5 total Performance 9.9 RC:4.5 SC: 4.7 TOTAL 19.1
String Ray though not having as hard of stunts wins the stunt portion of the score sheet, and ties the Overall routine categories with WCSS.... and even though WCSS scored higher on Stunt difficulty, routine and skills creativity, Stingray would win.

 

[Mr.Kevin]

You better let Youth 5 start pushing the stunt envelope pretty soon then. But I agree. How about letting the teams do the other teams stunts in warmups and the one that hits the others stunts the best sets the high score of the range? Just kidding.

Oooooohhh ... "competitive add-on"! I like it. A splinter sport!!

 

[NJ Coach]

There is not secret "Unspoken level of Awesomeness" We score the team in front of us, not compared the team before or after.
The key to these teams success is the highly under-appreciated
10 points given out for performance, and the 10 points given out for skills, and routine creativity.
Teams focus SO much on having the BEST sequence, and the BEST tumbling, that they either:
1. Worried the entire year about hitting stunts, that their entire routine has became centered around them, therefor scoring low in both performance, and choreography because you had time to teach sally a full up, tik-tok... but not a basic "high v".
2. They might have a WELL built routine, and choreography, but Become so concerned about hitting stunts, and landing tumbling, when something goes wrong, and sally drops her double full up, and jane puts her knees down after her double the rest of the routine just falls apart because they have it in their mind that stunts and tumbling are the only thing that count. And if you look at EVERY level 5 team, whats one of the first elements that you do? Tumbling and stunts.
Therefor these teams are either going to make or break themselves within the first 30 seconds on the floor.

This brings me to my personal opinion why I watched World Cup fall apart from the judges stand this past sunday. (NO I WAS NOT JUDGING them at the time, I had judged earlier and came back to watch)
They are a WELL coached and AMAZINGLY well choreographed team, but like all level 5's stunts are ALWAYS one of the first things in the routine. The pressure these girls must face is unimaginable! The entire arena expects perfection, and an amazing performance. These girls KNOW that they are Amazing, but they also knew what part of the routine they have trouble with..... They came out AMAZING, standing tumbling looked good, energy was high.... and when they dropped those 5 stunts, and heard the crowd make the "OOOOOOOOOOOO" sound, the girls energy and performance was all downhill from that point.

This is where stingray nails it every time. (not just them, but using them for an example)
They focus on EVERY aspect of the routine.
Their stunts might not be hard, but they are guaranteed to max out execution.
They only perform stunts they know that they can hit 9 out of 10 times. Everything is SAFE, and can be executed perfectly, thats how they make up for those difficulty points.

This post needs to go into the Fierceboard Hall of Fame.