All-Star For The Judges

[StarshipTrooper]

We dont judge by the "ohhh they so did that last year" "or the "ohhhhh they ripped that off of JO-JO elite" systems.
The only people that care about this are the people that download cheer music so they can shout the voiceovers when they watch a team, trade shirts, live on youtube, and idolize flyers on top squads.its scores well.

I'm going to pass out. Great stuff. King, you better ban her before there is a meltdown. Just kidding Jennaw, even though one of those flyers is a good buddy of mine.

 

[Num1Stunta]

OK, then whirly birds in level 4, no fullups until level 6 lol

Ugh. I hate whirly birds. They are not hard as hard as you think they would be, and just hurt. A fullup awesome is harder than a whirly bird.

 

[Jennaw]

I'm going to pass out. Great stuff. King, you better ban her before there is a meltdown. Just kidding Jennaw, even though one of those flyers is a good buddy of mine.

Lol no offense to Flyers on top squads, they can help that they are awesome, and people copy their every move!!! But, when girls spend hours upon end looking up and creating videos of pictures they have gathered from various competition photographers, and their facebook without consent ... thats WAY CREEPY.

 

[King]

I do agree with this, and I dont think the Varsity score sheet is ANYWHERE near perfect.
In a way, the score sheet does drive coaches to the "popular" elite skills, It names off every stunt you can do, but that little point at the end that says "any skill that might be considered elite" that gives the judges the flexibility to look for these new and innovative skills. Then not only will they be rewarded with difficulty, but also with the other creative, and overall routine aspects on the score sheet.
But MOST coaches are not going to try anything "new and innovative" until Top gun or someone wins worlds with it.
I see this not as a flaw in the score sheet, but a flaw in the way coaches are driven by the expectations of the "cheer world."
If you have something NEW and Innovative that you might consider elite.... GO FOR IT!!! Believe me, I would be THRILLED to see something other than tik-tok's and full ups.

Again, back to my point. If everyone started doing ball fullup stretches (to the top) this year then next year to get in the middle to upper elite you would have to do those ball fullup stretches to the top. 4 years ago if you did the ball fullup stretches you wouldnt be as rewarded as you would today because the scoresheets werent there yet.

Cheer cannot handle revolution on the current scoresheets, just evolution. The Varisty scoresheet is the best one, IMO, but only with a set determined amount of skills and an idea for what they are worth in the judges heads. The Worlds scoresheet, for its complete openness of description, will reward newer stuff better.

BUT this is all back to the point that how you score is determined by your peers. Otherwise scores from local competitions would match scores at national competitions more closely.

 

[Mr.Kevin]

Lol no offense to Flyers on top squads, they can help that they are awesome, and people copy their every move!!! But, when girls spend hours upon end looking up and creating videos of pictures they have gathered from various competition photographers, and their facebook without consent ... thats WAY CREEPY.

Just too funny!

 

[MissBee]

. Honestly, I don't know how you don't run screaming from the arena after hearing "Firework" and "Only Girl (in the World)" a hundred times a competition. :)

you learn to block it out. I do wish that we could put in our iPods, set them to classical music, and just watch the routines!

 

[King]

Lol no offense to Flyers on top squads, they can help that they are awesome, and people copy their every move!!! But, when girls spend hours upon end looking up and creating videos of pictures they have gathered from various competition photographers, and their facebook without consent ... thats WAY CREEPY.

This used to be really weird to me, until I figured it out. We have no NFL. We have no NBA. This is the pro's to these people. If someone did the same thing to Michael Jordan we would just say they were a fervent fan. Or maybe if they did it to a gymnast? You can find those same videos on youtube and facebook for Shawn Johnson.

Cheer is weird in that the absolute epitome of cheer in allstars. It has the most interest, the most energy involvement, the most innovation, the most money, and its completely national. Lots of ideas in college and high school have come from what people have done in allstar cheer. It just moves faster. You dont see videos of any of the college flyers because no one ever sees them.

These people's heros are just other teenagers.

 

[Jennaw]

And let me clarify, Nothing I have posted is to be critical of any one person, program or team. I too, have issues with various parts on the scoring system, the rules and divisions..... but Im just stating my opinion to help others to be able to work with what system we have NOW. I can only speak from what I have seen, listen too, and my experiences from the judges stand.
I started judging the year I graduated High School because after 11 years of All-star cheer, I had experienced first hand WAY to many flaws in the judging system. I had, and still have high hopes of helping make the necessary changes in order to delete these flaws :)

 

[Jennaw]

This used to be really weird to me, until I figured it out. We have no NFL. We have no NBA. This is the pro's to these people. If someone did the same thing to Michael Jordan we would just say they were a fervent fan. Or maybe if they did it to a gymnast? You can find those same videos on youtube and facebook for Shawn Johnson.

Cheer is weird in that the absolute epitome of cheer in allstars. It has the most interest, the most energy involvement, the most innovation, the most money, and its completely national. Lots of ideas in college and high school have come from what people have done in allstar cheer. It just moves faster. You dont see videos of any of the college flyers because no one ever sees them.

These people's heros are just other teenagers.

touché Kingston,
I can understand this point of view :)

 

[King]

And let me clarify, Nothing I have posted is to be critical of any one person, program or team. I too, have issues with various parts on the scoring system, the rules and divisions..... but Im just stating my opinion to help others to be able to work with what system we have NOW. I can only speak from what I have seen, listen too, and my experiences from the judges stand.
I started judging the year I graduated High School because after 11 years of All-star cheer, I had experienced first hand WAY to many flaws in the judging system. I had, and still have high hopes of helping make the necessary changes in order to delete these flaws :)

And that I thank you for. Though the point of the thread was more to discuss the theory of how things work, not how do we score better.

 

[Jennaw]

And that I thank you for. Though the point of the thread was more to discuss the theory of how things work, not how do we score better.

True, But you know, and I know... That the system will ALWAYS have its flaws. Cheerleading is too new of a sport to be able to accurately predict what we will be doing in the future. Gymnastics has been around since ancient Greek times, and they STILL are frequently making new rules, guidelines and scoring systems for it. And thats what we will have to continue to do... the system will just keep evolving with the sport.

 

[King]

True, But you know, and I know... That the system will ALWAYS have its flaws. Cheerleading is too new of a sport to be able to accurately predict what we will be doing in the future. Gymnastics has been around since ancient Greek times, and they STILL are frequently making new rules, guidelines and scoring systems for it. And thats what we will have to continue to do... the system will just keep evolving with the sport.

So, round about to my original question in a different way.

Can you out evolve the sport? Can you out perform the sport in a way that 5 years from now you would actually get properly recognized?

And, if you were in the position, if there was a way to inform and educate people beforehand so that there might be a way to get that proper reward?

Before a standing double had ever been performed did anyone really think it was possible? What if, instead of just one person performing it for the first time, there was a majority of the squad performing it.. the FIRST time we saw it? Would that not shift what people thought was possible in cheer, and, henceforth, what people think should score what?

 

[StarshipTrooper]

Yeah, it got off track a bit, but the judges add opinions that are extremely interesting. And I do think that being completely neutral before a routine starts is not compromised by just letting those of us who know little about the actual process of judging a bit about how it happens. Thanks again for the thread and discussion.

 

[socratesofcheer]

There are 100000000 different stunts, 1000000000 different ways to do them.

Wow! 100 million stunts? That's a lot of stunts. Too bad we only ever see about 4 of them.

 

[King]

Wow! 100 million stunts? That's a lot of stunts. Too bad we only ever see about 4 of them.

bwahaha, too true. maybe if we had a wow factor category...