High School Male Flyers

[ErinS]

ETA: @ErinS I somewhat addressed your post in this as well. To me, given the argument of "it looks stupid", I saw no difference between OldskoolKYcheercoach and the coach I had in 7th grade who told my best friend she couldn't fly because of her skin color, with the only reason being "it looks different". Now that there's been an elaboration, while I don't wholeheartedly agree with every point that was made, I can certainly see the difference in situations.

My point still remains that there is a clear difference between feeding into gender norms and explicit racism so the comparison need not be had imo. But I'm glad that you certainly see the difference in the situations




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[Wendylady123]

As a mom to a boy flyer, I am horrified that this is even a discussion in this day and age. I also take comfort in the fact that we live in a progressive area and have never had one negative thing said about my son flying. I also am thrilled that my child will never (ever ever) cheer for you.

I have written and rewritten and deleted and edited this post a million times now. Obviously it is personal to me to read that my son should not do what something he loves and is very good at because people thinks it "looks stupid" is heartbreaking.




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[ErinS]

As a mom to a boy flyer, I am horrified that this is even a discussion in this day and age. I also take comfort in the fact that we live in a progressive area and have never had one negative thing said about my son flying. I also am thrilled that my child will never (ever ever) cheer for you.

I have written and rewritten and deleted and edited this post a million times now. Obviously it is personal to me to read that my son should not do what something he loves and is very good at because people thinks it "looks stupid" is heartbreaking.




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I'm sure it's hard to not internalize people preferences because you have a male son that flys.... but at the end of the day, they are our preferences. It's what we prefer. If your kid loves flying, and you love him flying then cool beans, kudos, high five to your gym for letting him do what he loves.

But I wouldn't let perfect strangers on the internet not feeling the same as you be "heartbreaking" (and again it's personal so clearly this is easier said than done)


But just curious in a related unrelated--- do you discuss with your son that he may not fly forever? Is he willing to learn to base? Are you willing to have him base? (This is primarily related to the flying thread about not flying forever).

I also think that in this day and age, this certainly is a discussion that needs to be had. Males flying is not the norm by any means and a lot of apprehension comes along with it. Open discussion fosters understanding




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[ScottyB]

As a mom to a boy flyer, I am horrified that this is even a discussion in this day and age. I also take comfort in the fact that we live in a progressive area and have never had one negative thing said about my son flying. I also am thrilled that my child will never (ever ever) cheer for you.

I have written and rewritten and deleted and edited this post a million times now. Obviously it is personal to me to read that my son should not do what something he loves and is very good at because people thinks it "looks stupid" is heartbreaking.

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You're heartbroken now.. what will you tell him when he cannot fly anymore as he has outgrown all his teammates and they refuse to put him up? or when bullies at school push him around and call him horrible names for being the Top Girl on his cheer team? (granted the bullies should become more progressive and not care, but we don't live in a utopia and we know bullies will always exist)

Remember this is a discussion about opinions of routines and teams that utilize male flyers (at the high school level) and cheerleading as a whole is very opinionated and subjective in terms of viewing/judging.

 

[Official OWECheer]

I don't care if he's the best flyer in world, he's not flying on my team. . . EVER.

I don't care if he can do a triple up slippity dippity, he's not flying on my team. . .EVER

Luckily, all three coed high school programs in this area, and the local all star gyms see eye-to-eye on this issue, so we don't have problems with boys thinking it's going to happen.

I just know some cheer dad somewhere has used this term, LOL.

 

[Wendylady123]

I'm sure it's hard to not internalize people preferences because you have a male son that flys.... but at the end of the day, they are our preferences. It's what we prefer. If your kid loves flying, and you love him flying then cool beans, kudos, high five to your gym for letting him do what he loves.

But I wouldn't let perfect strangers on the internet not feeling the same as you be "heartbreaking" (and again it's personal so clearly this is easier said than done)


But just curious in a related unrelated--- do you discuss with your son that he may not fly forever? Is he willing to learn to base? Are you willing to have him base? (This is primarily related to the flying thread about not flying forever).

I also think that in this day and age, this certainly is a discussion that needs to be had. Males flying is not the norm by any means and a lot of apprehension comes along with it. Open discussion fosters understanding




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Let me be clear, when I say it is heartbreaking, I am not saying that my son not flying would be heartbreaking. What is heartbreaking is that someone can think him flying is stupid purely because of his gender.

Obviously my son understands that he will not fly forever. Flying does not encompass his life or define who he is. But I am really shocked reading this forum today that people think he should not fly purely because he is male.


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[Wendylady123]

You're heartbroken now.. what will you tell him when he cannot fly anymore as he has outgrown all his teammates and they refuse to put him up? or when bullies at school push him around and call him horrible names for being the Top Girl on his cheer team? (granted the bullies should become more progressive and not care, but we don't live in a utopia and we know bullies will always exist)

Remember this is a discussion about opinions of routines and teams that utilize male flyers (at the high school level) and cheerleading as a whole is very opinionated and subjective in terms of viewing/judging.

If he doesn't fly because he is not the best fit -- awesome. That is life and will happen. It happens to everyone. But I do have an issue with people saying it looks stupid when he flys purely because he is male.

I will also never encourage my child to do or not do something based on the fear of being bullied.
I am lucky that this has not been an issue for us. I guess I never realized that it could be an issue until reading this forum today.




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[ErinS]

Let me be clear, when I say it is heartbreaking, I am not saying that my son not flying would be heartbreaking. What is heartbreaking is that someone can think him flying is stupid purely because of his gender.

Obviously my son understands that he will not fly forever. Flying does not encompass his life or define who he is. But I am really shocked reading this forum today that people think he should not fly purely because he is male.


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Clearly I understood that you found the discussion "heartbreaking" not your son not flying.... which is why I mentioned it prior to and not after moving on with my discussion



But seriously. This thread is the first time you've encountered people who don't prefer males to fly?


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[cheerisloving]

I personally don't like males flying and I'm pretty liberal about most things. To me it is the gender norm and I'm not afraid to admit it. I am all for female empowerment and living in one's truth but there are still things I just perfer. I would never propose to my bf. But that's because it's the tradition that had been instilled in me.

My other issues is like the others stated- it is very distracting. And because it's such a rarity, when I see it, it's normally on younger teams were the 12 year old who looks ten is flying because he is the same size as the other flyers. And he's almost always point. Sometimes it comes off like 'look at us we're different because we have a boy flyer'

Then half a season later that boy is 5'5 with a deep voice. To me it's a novelty because of how quickly it can change. I don't mind boy baskets in tumbling, if it's going to be something crazy unique or eye catching.

 

[Wendylady123]

Clearly I understood that you found the discussion "heartbreaking" not your son not flying.... which is why I mentioned it prior to and not after moving on with my discussion



But seriously. This thread is the first time you've encountered people who don't prefer males to fly?


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I get that people have preferences. And prefer to see certain things. This is the first time I have seen someone flat out say never will I have a boy fly because it looks stupid. I coach all star cheer. I coach high school cheer. I have seen countless boys flying on all star and high school teams. My son is stopped by random people at competitions and complimented. Maybe it is a regional difference as well. The west coast is a little bit more progressive than the south or Midwest (generalizing here).

At high school state this year, multiple teams (I would guess at 35-40%) had boys flying. Most were in pyramids or baskets or even just a prep at the end of the dance, but some were flying the elite stunt stunt sections. I never heard one negative comment. I guess I have been living under a rock here where I honestly didn't realize that people had such strong negative feelings about it.


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[Pebbles49]

@Wendylady123 , I have never read such hypocrisy being spewed from women mouths... How can we as women limit what a young man can do in our sport... Because it is not something commonly seen is more the reason why your son fly and be the best flyer in the air.... We need to see more male flyers and to be honest, I noticed a lot of the males in cheerleading are seriously flexible and often beautiful in the air...

PS: If we are telling our girls they can be and do anything and not limit themselves...The boys should be told the same too.

 

[Michael White]

If it is privately owned, that CEO can do as they please. As can a gym owner/coach of a privately owned gym.

Just look at Hobby Lobby or any of the other religious private companies in America. They won't hire gay people. Same with private schools.

And to play devil's advocate in this convo: as a coach of a sports team, aren't you paid for your personal preferences, style, and decision making skills to put the best routine/team out there?

My job as a coach is to put my team in the best position to win, while maintaining a safe environment. My personal preference is to encourage every athlete to try new things, and to not be afraid of what the world thinks of them. I've had to have the conversation with many male cheerleaders about the same problems I went through as a male cheerleader (even though I started at 20 and was somewhat "sheltered") about discrimination, but never once had I considered that maybe I would have to warn them about cheerleaders and coaches down the line. Discrimination may be a harsh word, but when gender is the only reason, than it's hard to argue. Although I agree with reasons why it make sense not to have a male fly, I also agree with reasons a guy should fly. MANY girls have to learn to base after a growth spurt. I can't understand why guys can't.

 

[luv2cheer92]

I just find it funny that of all the times this discussion comes up on the board, it's typically very pro-male flyers. Interesting to see the difference here.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

@Wendylady123 , I have never read such hypocrisy being spewed from women mouths... How can we as women limit what a young man can do in our sport... Because it is not something commonly seen is more the reason why your son fly and be the best flyer in the air.... We need to see more male flyers and to be honest, I noticed a lot of the males in cheerleading are seriously flexible and often beautiful in the air...

PS: If we are telling our girls they can be and do anything and not limit themselves...The boys should be told the same too.

No hypocrisy here. I'm a man. No men flyers. EVER

 

[cheerisloving]

I'm sorry as I minority, the use of discrimination when talking about flying is making me laugh. Discrimination and preference are two different things. I prefer guys that are the same as race me, it's not a conscious choice, it's just what I like and what I know. Now, if I said I would never date someone outside my race because they were different that's discriminating.

What @OldskoolKYcheercoach is saying is that he prefers them on the ground and his reasons have little to do with what gender they identify with. They do tend to develop later so a male flyer on his team might not be as viable by the time they're a senior in HS.

They never said because boys should be on the ground because they're boys and it's a girl thing. In fact he said that if anything people may perceive it as a girly thing and it might detract other boys. Maybe over time if boys do suddenly become a norm in cheer this might not be an issue. But for now, this is their opinion.