All-Star "name" Of Gym Affecting Placement?

[Deleted member 15]

Ok, this is my question...IS it possible for USASF to require EP's that are members of the USASF to make all scores public? I only ask this because if this was the norm then all coaches would know what they are getting into BEFORE they registered for the event. IF they chose not to attend the event, fine but then they would have to look OUTSIDE an USASF event. Again, I'm asking if this is possible/feasible. I don't mean this as an attack on the USASF, just a question. Also, another question, what would have happened had you as the EP NOT removed those scores? I assume it wasn't something you did on a whim/surprise so coaches probably knew it was going to happen, WHAT are they trying to hide?

Make a proposal for the next cycle and we'll find out if it's possible.

We didn't specify in advance what info would be released. I can't say for sure what would have happened if we left them up, but it's generally best not to choose to alienate your customers when you have other options.

 

[shep]

If all EPs had to release scores it wouldn't be an issue, but as long as it appears the majority of the customers don't want the scores released EPs are going to because they don't want to push customers away over it. On the other hand if more customers start contacting EPs saying they want scores released, enough that they appear to be the majority, EPs will look at making that change.

Understood, and clearly an EP would never intentionally upset the very clientele that puts food on their tables, I believe that it needs to take place across the board, every usasf event.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Andre - my situation was opposite. Ours was asking because they wanted to see how they compared to others on the scoresheet. Not all coaches are bosom buddies and will willingly share their score sheets with another team (that is a whole different issue) Again in my situation IMO it was a bad decision not to because that is what the majority of clientele at that time wanted. The decision to not publish hurt the company in that it lost business it would of otherwise retained. If as a company it is in the best interest not to publish scores I understand why a company would not do it. So based on your situation and the information you have shared I see why you did not.

If you can give a percentage - what would you say would be the percentage of customers that requested this? Did the others request for the scores to posted or had no request at all? Was it pre-event or post event? Was it a result of a poll? Is it the same program repeatedly? Was it for one event or was it for the entire season of events? The process of how you got that answer (result) is just as important as the result itself. We are saying the exact same thing in judging a routine. It is not just the result but in better understanding how we get that result. Not just the connected ones, or the ones in the know, or the ones that can afford to get off of work and get away for coaches conferences. All of us.

If we are pushing for transparency in scoring, standing behind our scores and our scoring system/methods, then why not? I have not been to one coaches meeting at a competition where I was not told that they stood 100 % behind their scoring rubric and outcomes. We are being told as coaches to trust the system, and the judgement of the judges and that the team that should of won, did win because they hit the scoresheet better than everyone else. That the judges rarely get it wrong, or if they do it is so infrequent that it really doesn't matter; therefore it is is not a credible complaint. Yet while it may not matter to one, it matters to that team, program, parents and athletes it affects. If we can see the scores publicly then we as consumers of the EP can make that judgement call for ourselves.

Perhaps this should be an USASF issue

 

[Deleted member 15]

Understood, and clearly an EP would never intentionally upset the very clientele that puts food on their tables, I believe that it needs to take place across the board, every usasf event.

Which takes us back to making a proposal that requires it, which I'm completely in favor of.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Which takes us back to making a proposal that requires it, which I'm completely in favor of.

:chestbump:

 

[Deleted member 15]

Andre - my situation was opposite. Ours was asking because they wanted to see how they compared to others on the scoresheet. Not all coaches are bosom buddies and will willingly share their score sheets with another team (that is a whole different issue) Again in my situation IMO it was a bad decision not to because that is what the majority of clientele at that time wanted. The decision to not publish hurt the company in that it lost business it would of otherwise retained. If as a company it is in the best interest not to publish scores I understand why a company would not do it. So based on your situation and the information you have shared I see why you did not.

If you can give a percentage - what would you say would be the percentage of customers that requested this? Did the others request for the scores to posted or had no request at all? Was it pre-event or post event? Was it a result of a poll? Is it the same program repeatedly? Was it for one event or was it for the entire season of events? The process of how you got that answer (result) is just as important as the result itself. We are saying the exact same thing in judging a routine. It is not just the result but in better understanding how we get that result. Not just the connected ones, or the ones in the know, or the ones that can afford to get off of work and get away for coaches conferences. All of us.

If we are pushing for transparency in scoring, standing behind our scores and our scoring system/methods, then why not? I have not been to one coaches meeting at a competition where I was not told that they stood 100 % behind their scoring rubric and outcomes. We are being told as coaches to trust the system, and the judgement of the judges and that the team that should of won, did win because they hit the scoresheet better than everyone else. That the judges rarely get it wrong, or if they do it is so infrequent that it really doesn't matter; therefore it is is not a credible complaint. Yet while it may not matter to one, it matters to that team, program, parents and athletes it affects. If we can see the scores publicly then we as consumers of the EP can make that judgement call for ourselves.

Perhaps this should be an USASF issue

I agree both companies made the smart decision for their set of circumstances.

I'd say approximately 10-20% of programs contacted us and every one that contacted was against all the numbers being published. One one event was published with all the numbers. Most of our customers come to several events so I'd expect a similar response if we published all of them again. There was nothing specific stated about how results would or wouldn't be posted prior to posting them.

 

[Deleted member 15]

It seems like there's a group of us that want transparency in scoring so the question needs to shift to how do we get from where we are to where we want to be.

 

[cupieqt]

sidenote...our coaches now sit with the team AND the score sheet at first practice after comp and discuss areas that need work....smart...yes?

Yep. We do this too. Good to know bc I've done it for years and I KNOW it helps. My kids and their parents understand exactly why we won or lost and know what we will be working on from there.

I'm all for transparency in scores but I doubt it would eliminate the "bias" claim. When team A gets a 9.6 in stunt difficulty and team B gets a 9.5 then team B will scream that they should have been given a 9.7 and they didn't get it bc the judges were biased.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Yep. We do this too. Good to know bc I've done it for years and I KNOW it helps. My kids and their parents understand exactly why we won or lost and know what we will be working on from there.

I'm all for transparency in scores but I doubt it would eliminate the "bias" claim. When team A gets a 9.6 in stunt difficulty and team B gets a 9.5 then team B will scream that they should have been given a 9.7 and they didn't get it bc the judges were biased.

I don't think you will ever eliminate it either, just like we will never eliminate it out of many areas of life. But what we can do is lessen it, or the perception of it greatly by being transparent. In the long run I believe that is better for the industry.

 

[cupieqt]

I don't think you will ever eliminate it either, just like we will never eliminate it out of many areas of life. But what we can do is lessen it, or the perception of it greatly by being transparent. In the long run I believe that is better for the industry.

Absolutely it will make it better. I'm a big fan of it but I know it won't eliminate all of the drama. Bc frankly, we work in an industry filled with @holes.

 

[tumbleyoda]

cupieqt - LMBO - DEAD!

 

[cupieqt]

cupieqt - LMBO - DEAD!

I can't take all the credit on that one. Eric Little said the same thing at JamU when we were discussing sportsmanship. It was great!!!

 

[Mom Jeans]

True but at least there some peramiters and guideline. All we should worry about is taking care of our kids hitting are routine and realize the rest is all "in the eye of the beholder"

Coach Troy, is it JAMZ that has or had extra points you could receive for "Wow Factor" I think that's how its actually written..."wow factor"

 

[Coach Troy]

I think it was a few years back...David has done a lot to bring their scoring system into the All=Star age....I wonder how they defined the "wow" factor....for me its the Ponytail whip ALL DAY LONG:cheering:

 

[Mom Jeans]

^^^^ LOL.