All-Star National Championships Are Won At Tryouts

[King]

I didn't see that definition anywhere in the link you referenced, but I did see my example could very well be sandbagging per the definition you referenced. I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder, and since are no rules regarding what level athletes can compete, it is really just a matter of each individual's personal opinion and each gym's philosophy.

Yes. There is a limit to what skills can be performed in each level. If I have a standing tuck and you have a standing double and we have a standing tuck contest it doesn't matter if you have a standing double. We are having a tuck contest.

 

[Cheer Dad]

The thing is there is a limit to the skills you can perform. Let's use 3 teams that are each masterful at a separate level: 3, 4, and 5.

The level 3 team has extremely solid and mastered level 3 skills and almost teeter on level 4. The level 4 team is same for level 4 and are almost level 5. The level 5 team is a Worlds contender. They ALL compete in level 2. Who wins?

Most likely None of the true L2 team who are entered in an appropriate level.


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[King]

Most likely None of the true L2 team who are entered in an appropriate level.


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Can you write a rule that says what a true level 2 is?

 

[Cheer Dad]

Can you write a rule that says what a true level 2 is?

No, a rule cannot be written and since that is the case whenever a team of program competes down a level, or two, they will be looked at side eyed.

Just a thought, if you have a team where no one has skills beyond L2 a team of higher skill (presumably more experience) will hold an edge. The argument could be made that a L5 athlete has better body awareness, control, strength, maturity, etc... than a L2 athlete.

I really don't know if you are trying to justify sandbagging/stacking or just created the topic to engage the board but from my experience people will roof for the underdog and side eye the favorite when they compete compete down.


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[mstealtoyou]

Yes. There is a limit to what skills can be performed in each level. If I have a standing tuck and you have a standing double and we have a standing tuck contest it doesn't matter if you have a standing double. We are having a tuck contest.

Except someone with a standing double should have much better tuck form and will outlast someone who only has a standing tuck in a standing tuck contest. For someone with a standing double a standing tuck will be a piece of cake. To me those 2 things wouldn't be a level playing field.

JMHO

 

[dawgshow]

Let's use a non-cheer example. You have a school that is K-8 that competes in a leveled math bee. The district puts on a math fact contest. Most schools that compete are K-5 but your school is able to compete with students from all grades based on the technicality that schools register, not grades. If the K-8 school competes its 8th graders who have not only mastered the math facts years ago, they also have had years to practice them, who is likely to win? The 5th grader or the 8th grader? Are they doing anything against the letter of the rule? No. Are they going against the spirit of the rule? I think so.
I will gladly take a 3rd place and have CP compete in her "real" level vs a win that is a gimme. Of course, sometimes Karma kicks in and that "shoo-in" doesn't win. I love those comps.

 

[Pebbles49]

Would you consider a team that competes level 2 for the season but at tryouts has 95% level 3 skills across the board and approximately 20% level 5 skills sandbagging, stacking, or neither?

I will considered it to be sandbagging... I agree with Cheer Dad, if an athlete starts the season competing at such a low level to the skills they possess, that is beyond what stacking is about and goes into the area of sandbagging... If you are a level 5 athlete, why in your right mind, you will want to compete at a level 2, would you not want to be in a competitive division and compete against opponents who will challenge and make you work for the victory...

Based on my understanding of stacking, if more than 50-75% of the team are all performing level 2 skills and 25% are able to perform some level 3 skills, but if 30% are performing more than 2 levels (level 4 or 5) in all skills level that seems to be too excessive...Just saying!!!

 

[King]

No, a rule cannot be written and since that is the case whenever a team of program competes down a level, or two, they will be looked at side eyed.

Just a thought, if you have a team where no one has skills beyond L2 a team of higher skill (presumably more experience) will hold an edge. The argument could be made that a L5 athlete has better body awareness, control, strength, maturity, etc... than a L2 athlete.

I really don't know if you are trying to justify sandbagging/stacking or just created the topic to engage the board but from my experience people will roof for the underdog and side eye the favorite when they compete compete down.


The Fierce Board App! || iPhone || Android Coming soon, Cheer Dad's gofundme retirement account. Stay tuned

As always, to engage the board .

If the goal is to win then you cannot worry about side-eyeing. As long as you are competing within the rules than not complying with some arbitrary rule that cannot be defined I don't see what the reason is. 5 years ago having squad handsprings on a level 2 in June was sandbagging. Now you need near that to be competitive. In 5 years the skills needed to be competitive in a level will look like 'sandbagging' now.

 

[King]

Except someone with a standing double should have much better tuck form and will outlast someone who only has a standing tuck in a standing tuck contest. For someone with a standing double a standing tuck will be a piece of cake. To me those 2 things wouldn't be a level playing field.

JMHO

Outlast in what way? I said 'tuck' contest. Seriously there is a limit to what one can do and surpassing those limits has no benefit.

 

[King]

Let's use a non-cheer example. You have a school that is K-8 that competes in a leveled math bee. The district puts on a math fact contest. Most schools that compete are K-5 but your school is able to compete with students from all grades based on the technicality that schools register, not grades. If the K-8 school competes its 8th graders who have not only mastered the math facts years ago, they also have had years to practice them, who is likely to win? The 5th grader or the 8th grader? Are they doing anything against the letter of the rule? No. Are they going against the spirit of the rule? I think so.
I will gladly take a 3rd place and have CP compete in her "real" level vs a win that is a gimme. Of course, sometimes Karma kicks in and that "shoo-in" doesn't win. I love those comps.

Isn't that the fault of the contest to allow 8th graders to compete with 5th graders?

 

[dawgshow]

Isn't that the fault of the contest to allow 8th graders to compete with 5th graders?

There's enough fault to share, IMO.

 

[cheermommaRN]

Sandbagging is where you start a level up and drop down for specific competitions.

Sandbagging - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually that definition would be better described as "hustling". You play a round of pool, lose on purpose, raise the stakes, and then hang the person. Though i guess you could say that "sandbagging" is essentially "hustling" but for jackets instead of money.

 

[cheermommaRN]

Isn't that the fault of the contest to allow 8th graders to compete with 5th graders?

So then it's the fault of EP's to allow teams to drop down during the season. Gyms should have to declare their rosters and levels at the beginning of the season (by August 31st) and they are fixed except for documented medical reasons or a new member joins. Teams must compete at that level all season, including nationals.

 

[King]

There's enough fault to share, IMO.

Not sure what you mean. If a speed limit was erected that said you can do 100 do you yell at the people who go 95?

 

[quitthedrama]

Can you write a rule that says what a true level 2 is?

currently no. This is why I am a proponent of athlete credentialing.