All-Star National Championships Are Won At Tryouts

[yesucan]

ok after reading this thread I understand staking more. Correct me if I'm wrong. Staking is having a team with 90-100% solid level skills lets say level 4. They can stay at that level and still be competitive. It's also stacking if same team drops down to level 3 from the beginning to end of season. But its sandbagging if said team only drops down to level 2 only once or middle of the season? If its the latter than I don't get it. I feel its the same thing just later in season. But if I'm reading it wrong and its only one comp than YES that is sandbagging IMO.

Imo, a 90-100% level 4 team competing at level 3 at any point is sandbagging. Competing level 4 would be stacking if they have the level 4 appropriate skills at tryouts or acquire them during the summer. I personally think stacking is OK and almost necessary these days as long as athletes continue to progress and learn new skills. Sandbagging however. ... I watched it all year last year and it drove me crazy. There's no honor in cheating (yes I consider sandbagging cheating even though I know technically it isn't) and personally, I prefer for my athlete to be proud of her team's accomplishments... not embarrassed because the world knows they should really be competing at a higher level. It's a sad day when it is acceptable to teach kids that it's OK to lie (about level) cheat (sandbag) and steal (first place) to win.

 

[cmghas3]

First, congrats to your gyms 10th place finish. Second, yes from my understanding that is stacking. Also stacking could be having a team of solid level 3 skills compete down to level 2 the whole season. Do you think that a level 2 that is Stacked in level 2 can compete and win? This question is not directed at you or your CP's team. Just an example

Thank you, and let me try to answer this correctly. Again, I don't coach and have honestly never paid attention to levels, ect...a lot has to do with so many factors. When you have been at the same gym for a long time, you almost become complacent. Now I'm not totally sure of the question your asking because I'm not totally educated, and have really just recently paid "more" attention. I have to say that if a team is genuinely competing at a level 2, which mean age appropriate, not athletes that came on team with level 3 skills, not sandbagging, and they have a great routine, hit all stunts... Yes they can win! I tried to answer that the best I could.


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[cmghas3]

Dropping a team down a level (I have seen) is in my eyes cheating! That's not sandbagging, stacking in my opinion. It's just dirty!


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[TealShades]

But is it a real advantage if team A is stacking level 3 skills then going down t

Imo, a 90-100% level 4 team competing at level 3 at any point is sandbagging. Competing level 4 would be stacking if they have the level 4 appropriate skills at tryouts or acquire them during the summer. I personally think stacking is OK and almost necessary these days as long as athletes continue to progress and learn new skills. Sandbagging however. ... I watched it all year last year and it drove me crazy. There's no honor in cheating (yes I consider sandbagging cheating even though I know technically it isn't) and personally, I prefer for my athlete to be proud of her team's accomplishments... not embarrassed because the world knows they should really be competing at a higher level. It's a sad day when it is acceptable to teach kids that it's OK to lie (about level) cheat (sandbag) and steal (first place) to win.

Yes I agree with everything thing you said. I don't understand the whole concept of dropping a level if you have solid skills in a higher level. No matter when its done. Would that team not be successful in their skill level? So too think its sandbagging if you drop a level mid season or beginning. But stacking a team with solid skills in a level should stay in that level. Also another point there is an up roar if a team going up a level they can't/shouldn't compete in but its cool and ok if you drop a level or two

 

[TealShades]

Thank you, and let me try to answer this correctly. Again, I don't coach and have honestly never paid attention to levels, ect...a lot has to do with so many factors. When you have been at the same gym for a long time, you almost become complacent. Now I'm not totally sure of the question your asking because I'm not totally educated, and have really just recently paid "more" attention. I have to say that if a team is genuinely competing at a level 2, which mean age appropriate, not athletes that came on team with level 3 skills, not sandbagging, and they have a great routine, hit all stunts... Yes they can win! I tried to answer that the best I could.


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thanks you did answer me. and I too am no expert or even a coach. but i was just wondering your thoughts. since you're paying more attention how would one catch sandbagging?

 

[Keep_Believing]

Stacking and sandbagging are legal. So, really nothing to catch.

 

[TealShades]

@yesucan sorry that top part was not my reply to you lol just didn't erase my other post that I wanted post

 

[TealShades]

Stacking and sandbagging are legal. So, really nothing to catch.

Ok thank you. I was just wondering how people know a team is sandbagging/stacking.

 

[cmghas3]

thanks you did answer me. and I too am no expert or even a coach. but i was just wondering your thoughts. since you're paying more attention how would one catch sandbagging?

Honestly, I really don't know. I did encounter a "situation" 2 years ago where I knew a particular gym sandbagged/pulled some shady things. No names mentioned! I really don't know how to tell if someone is "sandbagging".


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[TealShades]

Honestly, I really don't know. I did encounter a "situation" 2 years ago where I knew a particular gym sandbagged/pulled some shady things. No names mentioned! I really don't know how to tell if someone is "sandbagging".


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Haha me either. Now when I watch a video I'm going to be thinking about sandbagging.

 

[cheermomforever]

Ok thank you. I was just wondering how people know a team is sandbagging/stacking.

As I have posted in the past, we waited 30 min for the last team in our sr2 division to warm up, due to the fact that most of their team was in another arena winning level 5! While we waited all the parents talked about how that was a usual for that gyms team.


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[TealShades]

As I have posted in the past, we waited 30 min for the last team in our sr2 division to warm up, due to the fact that most of their team was in another arena winning level 5! While we waited all the parents talked about how that was a usual for that gyms team.


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Wow that's crazy. I guess it would be hard to tell if you don't follow that team/gym or know athletes for higher level teams.

 

[cheerKT]

Ok thank you. I was just wondering how people know a team is sandbagging/stacking.

Well, back when I cheered on a senior 3, it was pretty clear the teams that had dropped from level 4 for Cheersport or other big competitions. For example, the opening of their routines would be one standing handspring when the rest of us would have standing series. It clearly was supposed to be a standing tuck, they just swapped it out to keep the timing the same. No level 3 teams would throw a single standing handspring because it didn't max out. Also they would straight cradle from extending one legged stunts (replacing the full down) when level 3s would usually reload to 2 legs and full from there.

Not to mention you could go on the gym's website and clearly see a small senior 4 listed. So if the routine didn't give it away that definitely did, haha

 

[TealShades]

Well, back when I cheered on a senior 3, it was pretty clear the teams that had dropped from level 4 for Cheersport or other big competitions. For example, the opening of their routines would be one standing handspring when the rest of us would have standing series. It clearly was supposed to be a standing tuck, they just swapped it out to keep the timing the same. No level 3 teams would throw a single standing handspring because it didn't max out. Also they would straight cradle from extending one legged stunts (replacing the full down) when level 3s would usually reload to 2 legs and full from there.

Not to mention you could go on the gym's website and clearly see a small senior 4 listed. So if the routine didn't give it away that definitely did, haha

Oh okay. So you just have a keen eye and now the rules real well.

 

[TraumaRNcheermom]

I want to throw in isn't this one of the issues brought up by the show CheerHab?

Oh yes and even the team on Cheerhab had girls that quit because they didn't want to go to a 4.2. Our gym recently took away our level 5 team because we couldn't compete w true level 5's. We now have level fours who are strengthening their skills and will eventually be a a kick butt level 5. We lost many girls because of this and the funny thing was we lost girls who were 11 and 12 years of age... at that age they have so many years to compete and get their team to a 5 instead of quitting to seek a 5 team when they were weak 5 flyers? Who knows