All-Star Running Triple Fulls

[CheerChick123]

How about flipping (double backs) rather than twisting (triple fulls). I'm not an expert but flipping seems safer on the knees than twisting. I know there are also possible problems (risk of injury) with double backs but just want to throw it out there.

 

[MissBee]

I would say no. There has been such a quiet effort to minimize the need for truly qualified tumbling instructors that I can see lots of unnecessary injuries resulting. Teaching triples is a whole another realm. Takes many gymnasts a good amount of time to master them if at all. We don't have the "patience" necessary to push that envelope open. Technically speaking a double back tuck is easier to throw and land safely than a triple full. And I am not advocating for double back tucks in cheer at all.

I think we share a brain.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Curious of the 'quiet' effort. Do you mean the the percentage based scores in to improve stunting?

Was looking back thru old e-mails last week and found one while the ProX board was up. It was from an EP that was stating how expensive it was to run tumbling programs and was advising programs on cutting cost measures, many of which I see in action today. His position was that it cost too much to have trained tumbling coaches and that was where programs could cut costs. BTW the e-mails was from 2008.

As far as the percentages on stunting it really don't matter to me. Although I can see that as a move in that direction. I am just not in favor of untrained coaches just telling kids to chuck stuff and hope they land it okay and without injury.

 

[MissBee]

How about flipping (double backs) rather than twisting (triple fulls). I'm not an expert but flipping seems safer on the knees than twisting. I know there are also possible problems (risk of injury) with double backs but just want to throw it out there.

Teaching double backs is very difficult, and very few people in the cheer world have the experience necessary to teach them. A double back is not just pulling tighter, or punching harder off the floor. The set is completely different, as is the spotting technique. As a gymnastics coach I "studied" under another coach learning how to teach and spot them for almost a year before I was ready to teach and spot them on my own (and I was able to DO them on my own in my floor routine). I practice spotted on our elites for a good month before I started spotting them on my own.
I really feel that cheerleading just isn't ready, as a whole, to go there with tumbling. As mentioned above, perfection before progression. Also, there are just too many "self taught" tumbling "instructors" in the cheer world. There is still too much of a "the comp is this weekend, so chuck it even if it's ugly" mentality.

 

[NoOneSpecial]

So the question I would like to ask - which would score better? Combo to double or a straight triple?

I am against triples and I know a couple girls/guys who would be able to compete them. I am not a fan of adding more risk of trying to twist that 3rd rotataion and you come down to early.. Owwe the knee/ankle. I would also believe that a combo to double is more difficult than a straight triple.

 

[MissBee]

Anytime you throw a combo it's more difficult. As a judge, I look for PERFECTION of a skill.....so a combo to a perfect single is going to score higher than the same combo to a janky double EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. (on my score sheet).

I would really like to see judging panels be split, and for judges to specialize in a section of the score sheet. I think it would allow for more consistency in the judging. You could have all the people with strong tumbling/gymnastics backgrounds handle the jumps/tumbling portion. People with a dance background handle the dance section. A third judge could do stunts/pyramids. Then you have a safety/deduction judge. All 4 judges score overall impression.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Teaching double backs is very difficult, and very few people in the cheer world have the experience necessary to teach them. A double back is not just pulling tighter, or punching harder off the floor. The set is completely different, as is the spotting technique. As a gymnastics coach I "studied" under another coach learning how to teach and spot them for almost a year before I was ready to teach and spot them on my own (and I was able to DO them on my own in my floor routine). I practice spotted on our elites for a good month before I started spotting them on my own.
I really feel that cheerleading just isn't ready, as a whole, to go there with tumbling. As mentioned above, perfection before progression. Also, there are just too many "self taught" tumbling "instructors" in the cheer world. There is still too much of a "the comp is this weekend, so chuck it even if it's ugly" mentality.

Exactly. Back in the ancient days of foam block spring floors, I could double back and full. But I was more self taught in my tumbling. But thankfully I had gymnastic coaches who sat me down and forced me to learn how to teach and spot skills. It is more than "do it again, spin tighter, tuck faster, etc." It takes time and many repetitions to be qualifed to spot double backs or double fulls. It took years before I was allowed to spot a double back into a pit, let alone on the floor. Now going to triples? Yikes.

And please do not talk about the USASF testing. The tests I wrote and gave the instructors that worked under me are more clear and more qualifying than that...ugh:banghead:

 

[MissBee]

And please do not talk about the USASF testing. The tests I wrote and gave the instructors that worked under me are more clear and more qualifying than that...ugh:banghead:

My dog could do a better job!!!

 

[tumbleyoda]

My dog could do a better job!!!

The sad thing is I believe you and your dog probably cares more about safe, progressions in tumbling. (I am being sarcastic people :))

 

[MissBee]

The sad thing is I believe you and your dog probably cares more about safe, progressions in tumbling. (I am being sarcastic people :))

Don't lie, you're not being sarcastic....my dog (named Somi) has spent more time in a gym than most of these so called instructors! (I started bringing him as a pup, and he loves to lay on the vault runway when not in use, then he switches to the foam pit.

 

[tumbleyoda]

That is what I get for you sharing a brain with me today!:D

 

[kickdblcj]

Heck no techno!!!

 

[BlueCat]

We have had multiple athletes who could complete triples, specialty to triples, and full ins. We have even had a guy who could consistently land a quad on the spring floor. However, I think there not nearly enough qualified people in the industry to teach/spot those to make it worth the risk for them to be legal at this point.

 

[King]

(Can we tell this is my I'm bored on the board thread and my way of starting discussion without asking who will win worlds?)

 

[yojaehs]

Double backs and triples were legal for a little while, anyone remember why they are no longer legal? Bc there were people that had NO Business attempting the skills (actually at one time double backs were legal on FLAT MAT).
Stupid coaches is ultimately the reason.