All-Star Substance Free Programs

[King]

So yes, I thought of that before I posted and I agree. I'm just saying that if we are going to drug test...it needs to be an across the board test (including marijuana right there with all of the other "illegal" ones) because it doesn't matter whether something is legal or illegal...if it has the potential to alter your state of mind/behavior/performance in a way that even slightly puts my child (or the child taking the "drug") at greater risk of injury out on that floor... You shouldn't be doing it.

That is assuming the level of risk of each substance is the same and the cost of trying to police each substance is the same.

Also what if certain substances effect people differently? I married a redhead and she can withstand drugs way more that most people because of that. Do we take into consideration an individuals tolerance or make a blanket statement?

 

[King]

Everyone keeps brining in the safety aspect into it, what about the health issue with drug use in athletes? Hardcore drugs will ruin your body and make it difficult for you to perform well and safe in any sport. What can the USASF do to encourage drug free environment is more feasible than catching athletes under the influence, as most are minors and there would be a whole legal debacle for the first Suzy on Elite Elite Allstars caught with drugs in her system.

The USASF can do nothing to effect a local culture. If your gym is in Colorado or Washington you probably have a culture that is more ok with it than, say, Georgia.

 

[MissCongeniality]

That is assuming the level of risk of each substance is the same and the cost of trying to police each substance is the same.

Also what if certain substances effect people differently? I married a redhead and she can withstand drugs way more that most people because of that. Do we take into consideration an individuals tolerance or make a blanket statement?

I think it has to be a blanket statement. Judging how well someone can "handle it" can be pretty subjective. I don't know of any drug tests that measure a gray area. It is either positive or negative. And, as far as including a large number of substances in the drug test, I believe that most out there that test for the hard stuff are picking up THC too.

 

[cheerisloving]

The USASF can do nothing to effect a local culture. If your gym is in Colorado or Washington you probably have a culture that is more ok with it than, say, Georgia.

I was thinking more along the lines in coaching training it being a course, or running marketing campaigns. I'm not a coach so I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of what all they can do it, but just the inner marketing intern in me is thinking of what steps can be done by a higher up.

 

[ScottyB]

So yes, I thought of that before I posted and I agree. I'm just saying that if we are going to drug test...it needs to be an across the board test (including marijuana right there with all of the other "illegal" ones) because it doesn't matter whether something is legal or illegal...if it has the potential to alter your state of mind/behavior/performance in a way that even slightly puts my child (or the child taking the "drug") at greater risk of injury out on that floor... You shouldn't be doing it.

ETA: as the parent of older teens/adults, I have been in the trenches and had many a late night "discussion" over drinking/marijuana etc. But, I am also the parent of a CP who had to share a tumbling pass one year with a young man who was well known for his philosophy that he "tumbled better" when stoned or drunk. Ummmmm no....his tumbling was atrocious! He couldn't go in a straight line and it was a running joke that you did not want to be the one to have to tumble with him. Two CPs were hit and during the short time my CP had to be the one, I white knuckled it with my fellow moms. (On a positive note...it motivated her to up her game tumbling wise so she didn't have to share the pass with him)

So why didn't you address the coach? Or leave the gym?
Not trying to attack your parenting, but if you knew that something was wrong why didn't you say or do anything about it?

 

[MissCongeniality]

So why didn't you address the coach? Or leave the gym?
Not trying to attack your parenting, but if you knew that something was wrong why didn't you say or do anything about it?

We did. And we did.

 

[King]

I think it has to be a blanket statement. Judging how well someone can "handle it" can be pretty subjective. I don't know of any drug tests that measure a gray area. It is either positive or negative. And, as far as including a large number of substances in the drug test, I believe that most out there that test for the hard stuff are picking up THC too.

All current alcohol tests are in a grey area. If you have a BAC above a certain level you are considered drunk. More experienced drinkers can handle more than that and less experienced people who have an allergy to alcohol cannot. Some people can get pass out drunk on one dose of NyQuil but would be under the legal limits of everything. So how do you handle that?

 

[quitthedrama]

I would love for USASF to be in the position to do drug testing. I would even be willing to pay a drug testing fee at each competition (this is done with another sport I am involved with). However, they don't even provide proper warm-up facilities at Worlds (unless you pay $400 extra per 45 minutes), so I can't see USASF implementing drug testing. For the forseeable future it needs to be a community effort - athletes, parents, coaches, and gym owners. I didn't realize this was such a widespread problem, so it will definitely be on my radar now.

 

[cheerisloving]

Drugs also are different on every person. I had a friend try drugs and basically was quiet and sleepy, and I've had friends do drugs and do the stereotypical stoner thing. I've had some act totally normal.

I don't do drugs and have been asked if I was high because I was 'happy'. My parents have jokingly asked my brother if he was high because his eyes get red when he's tired.

It's just so hard to know that someone has done drugs without any explicit evidence like the smell, or seeing it.

 

[MissCongeniality]

All current alcohol tests are in a grey area. If you have a BAC above a certain level you are considered drunk. More experienced drinkers can handle more than that and less experienced people who have an allergy to alcohol cannot. Some people can get pass out drunk on one dose of NyQuil but would be under the legal limits of everything. So how do you handle that?

I don't think you can cover every single variable...ever. But is that reason enough to do nothing? (And @King , I am in no way suggesting you are on the "status quo is fine, do nothing" side of things...) What is being done now...isn't working. I think most of us agree on that. What should be done? I don't have the perfect answers, only my experience and some ideas.

 

[King]

I don't think you can cover every single variable...ever. But is that reason enough to do nothing? (And @King , I am in no way suggesting you are on the "status quo is fine, do nothing" side of things...) What is being done now...isn't working. I think most of us agree on that. What should be done? I don't have the perfect answers, only my experience and some ideas.

I think you do two things:

PED testing at Worlds for everyone who medals. 1/3 of the team is tested and who is chosen is not by the coach but by an independent 3rd part.

A guide of standards of what you should allow in your gym and how to handle substances and what can be done. Past that you cant do too much else at the moment.

 

[Cheermom1969]

Any program or testing is only as good as the people enforcing the rules. I have witnessed a HS coach turning a blind eye to a flyer that spent much of her school day high. We have all witnessed coaches/owners turning a blind eye to PED's and "recreational drugs" on professional teams. And, unfortunately, we can't exclude the fact that some of these parents and coaches are "recreational" users, as well. Everyone has to play a role in this process to make testing worthwhile and keep the integrity, but the USASF has the least "emotional" attachment to the athlete and ultimately should be in control of enforcing the rules. Gym owners, coaches and parents should then make sure the "government" is enforcing the rules fairly across all programs.

On a side note, it may not be the USASF who will demand testing, but the insurance companies. I am actually kind of surprised Disney's insurance company doesn't require all large sport groups coming onto their grounds to have some type of testing program in place.

For our lawyers out there, if a child is hurt as a result of another child using an illegal substance and they are on Disney grounds (or any venue) practicing on grass or performing, who is ultimately going to be held responsible for their injuries? In my opinion, here lies the answer as to who will be mandating the rules in the future.

I promise that if this scenario happens, everyone and their mother will be named in the law suit. Everyone. And usually, ultimately it's the deep pockets that pay, i.e., Disney and the gym , because they have the insurance. But then the gym's insurance company will drop them like a hot potato and they will have an almost impossible time trying to find another insurance company.

A case doesn't have to actually go to trial for there to be serious repercussions money wise.

And to answer @MissCongeniality I'm not sure that the drug testing would need to be done if you have witnesses to testify that the kid was under the influence and the coaches knew or gym owner knew and turned a blind eye. Especially if you have people willing to testify that the athlete had been under the influence in the past and, again, nothing was done to them by the gym/coach.

In a civil case, the burden of proof is usually by preponderance of the evidence, meaning, it's more likely than not that something occurred.

 

[Dixie]

The USASF can do nothing to effect a local culture. If your gym is in Colorado or Washington you probably have a culture that is more ok with it than, say, Georgia.

I agree with this and just want to throw something in the mix...pot is now legal in Colorado, but businesses are still allowed to dismiss employees for a positive drug test or appear high the day after smoking it. Just happened in our town. Gyms could still have a zero tolerance for drug use there.
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[quitthedrama]

I promise that if this scenario happens, everyone and their mother will be named in the law suit. Everyone. And usually, ultimately it's the deep pockets that pay, i.e., Disney and the gym , because they have the insurance. But then the gym's insurance company will drop them like a hot potato and they will have an almost impossible time trying to find another insurance company.

A case doesn't have to actually go to trial for there to be serious repercussions money wise.

And to answer @MissCongeniality I'm not sure that the drug testing would need to be done if you have witnesses to testify that the kid was under the influence and the coaches knew or gym owner knew and turned a blind eye. Especially if you have people willing to testify that the athlete had been under the influence in the past and, again, nothing was done to them by the gym/coach.

In a civil case, the burden of proof is usually by preponderance of the evidence, meaning, it's more likely than not that something occurred.

And you can bet every page of this thread and some other threads involving incidents that happen regularly at World will make for a pretty good case against USASF and Disney!

 

[njallday]

I agree with this and just want to throw something in the mix...pot is now legal in Colorado, but businesses are still allowed to dismiss employees for a positive drug test or appear high the day after smoking it. Just happened in our town. Gyms could still have a zero tolerance for drug use there.
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yup. medical marijuana is legal in NJ and when i was working for a nonprofit for those with disabilities i spent a good deal of time helping families jump through the hoops to get their children with severe epilepsy approved for marijuana. just because we supported it and helped people get it doesn't mean i wasn't drug tested regularly. we worked with a vulnerable population and there was no tolerance for drug use. i realize medicinal drugs are different, but you would think because a company was so lax and proactive for marijuana that they'd feel the same in their everyday lives. nope.