Summit Bid J5 Question...

[CEA_ATC]

I think @CEA_ATC being in a Y5 division becomes a double edged sword...Because the division have so few teams, we often find ourselves competing against the same teams and I think it becomes an economic question, is it financially worth it to spend that amount of money to compete against teams you just competed against 3 weeks ago...Is Summit worth it enough to go and challenge for it? Possibly, at this point maybe or maybe not... But in retrospect, how are we any different than LAG, with maybe only 8 competitive teams, 8 total and Large Coed with a limited number of teams too... I am trying to understand why we do not hear a cry to get rid of LAG or even Large Coed because of a lack of competition...just Y5, ummm???

ps: I've been to just as many competitions where WCSS had no competition and the crowd went wild to see them...

I get that. You guys had no reason to come back down last year.... Unfortunately for us, we did not hit on day 2 of either NCA or UCA, so our kids wanted Twinkles to come back down for Summit SO BAD... Just to let both teams hit both days and see who won. Part of why I love them. They want to beat the best when they are at their best. And, as my CP says: "to get all my friends from these teams together!"

 

[Pebbles49]

I still think that Summit should be the type of competition that moves to different areas, especially since they are fielding many more (levels and divisions) and definitely not so close to Worlds...Having Summit and UCA in the same site is not a good thing and I will love to see Summit possibly move to Chicago or even New Orleans, I think more teams may go if it is not in Disney $$$, especially, during that time of year...

 

[Boo21]

And for NCA to dump half of their paid bids seems unfair as well. Considering this competition is so large I do not get it.

 

[CindyLou22]

I have to agree with @DaniV on this one.

Not sure why we are mentioning how many years our CP’s have been in this sport, but I’ll play along. I’ve had all 4 of my CP’s in this sport (yes 4) I’m going on my 13th year. I’ve had CP’s in mini 1, youth 2, youth 3, youth 4, Jr 3, Jr coed 4, Jr coed 5 (and they went to worlds when on this team, this alone shows how long I’ve been involved in this sport) Sr 1, Sr 2 , Sr 3, Sr 4, Sr coed 4, Small Coed 5, Medium Coed 5, IOC5. My CP’s have been to worlds and the Summit. And after all this time I have to respectfully disagree with you about level 1 being easy. To a level 1 athlete a prep is a double up to them.

I was simply making the point that I've been around for a bit and am immersed currently in both level 1 and level 5. Is it just me or is there an overall snarky tone to all the comments in this thread? I don't understand why everyone is getting so defensive. I started this thread to just ask a simple question and get a few opinions. I was asking for what 'gossip' was out there as unfortunately this is a sport where communication from those in command often never happens, the rules change or bend to meet EP's (& sometimes coaches)needs/wants and for as many times as the gossip you hear on these boards isn't true..it also simply is true. Many of us use these boards to try to get an inside edge or hear that gossip or see scores before they're released to the masses etc; etc; etc; I wasn't trying to start a heated debate or create a space for people to throw stones at each other. We all know the amount of work that all of our athletes pour into this sport not to mention the time and financial dedication expected from them and us. I think we all want the same thing for all of our athletes which is a fair environment for them to compete in and rules/regulations that substantiate this sport and support our kids. It's a bummer that I even have to ask what the inside track is on the bids in a forum like this and that their isn't a reliable source that we know to be 100% factual regarding all of it. People wonder why cheer has the issues it has regarding establishing respect and legitimacy. And for the record I've had CP's ( I don't even know what that abbreviation stands for) in M1, Y1, Y2, J3, J5, S1, S4 & R5 and I still think trying to compare a prep to a double up is preposterous. 90% of all athletes at Level 1-4 will never be on a worlds team or even figure out how to twist for that matter. A cartwheel can be learned in day and a double can take 5 years and 16 skills before it to master. You'er talking about novice versus expert skill sets and in our gym.. the level 1's kick serious butt and it is easy stuff compared to what a level 5 athlete must do. I would like to see a level 1 athlete pushed to vomiting during practice like our level 5's are as they are prepping for NCA/Summit or Worlds (while they work on that prep and cartwheel). Now before anyone jumps all over me.. I currently have a level 1 athlete and I KNOW HOW HARD SHE WORKS..I'm not taking away from that I'm just saying it's different. So we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. And thanks for sharing as much as you could about your insider Y5 info. I for one appreciate it. Gossip or not.

 

[NoDramaCheerMama]

Ignore, wrong comp. You're talking Summit & I'm talking NCA. Oops

 

[DaniV]

A cartwheel can be learned in day and a double can take 5 years and 16 skills before it to master. You'er talking about novice versus expert skill sets and in our gym.. the level 1's kick serious butt and it is easy stuff compared to what a level 5 athlete must do. I would like to see a level 1 athlete pushed to vomiting during practice like our level 5's are as they are prepping for NCA/Summit or Worlds (while they work on that prep and cartwheel)

Not arguingin with you... just the concept you bring up. Again, that is not totally true. Yes, I have taught athletes how to cartwheel in a day but I also have girls on my team that took MONTHS to learn how to a cartwheel and it is still ugly. I learned how to double up in one day. There are girls on my team who can't double up no matter how many times we work on it. Cartwheels need multiple skill sets mastered before they can be correctly attempted - handstand, lunge, kick, landing.... No different than perfecting a RO, BHS, and layout before starting to twist. They can be easier skills for some kids, but not everyone. I've had a few (and it is rare, so I'm not saying this is normal occurance for me) kids puke after some of their first full outs or doing back to back full-outs with conditioning during nationals season. That is because my routines are usually jam packed with lots of tumbling, max'd out jump sequences, and fast stunting. It's just as hard to them as a level 5 routine is to a level 5 athlete.

And by saying they are only doing a cartwheel and a prep - I would equate that to a RO full and full up lib. Basic level 1 and basic level 5. Just FYI, if that helps make sense where I am coming from.

If athletes are correctly placed in to the level that is appropriate for them, the difficulty of the routine to the individual athlete should be the same across the board.

 

[crazzyeyesassypants]

I was simply making the point that I've been around for a bit and am immersed currently in both level 1 and level 5. Is it just me or is there an overall snarky tone to all the comments in this thread? I don't understand why everyone is getting so defensive. I started this thread to just ask a simple question and get a few opinions. I was asking for what 'gossip' was out there as unfortunately this is a sport where communication from those in command often never happens, the rules change or bend to meet EP's (& sometimes coaches)needs/wants and for as many times as the gossip you hear on these boards isn't true..it also simply is true. Many of us use these boards to try to get an inside edge or hear that gossip or see scores before they're released to the masses etc; etc; etc; I wasn't trying to start a heated debate or create a space for people to throw stones at each other. We all know the amount of work that all of our athletes pour into this sport not to mention the time and financial dedication expected from them and us. I think we all want the same thing for all of our athletes which is a fair environment for them to compete in and rules/regulations that substantiate this sport and support our kids. It's a bummer that I even have to ask what the inside track is on the bids in a forum like this and that their isn't a reliable source that we know to be 100% factual regarding all of it. People wonder why cheer has the issues it has regarding establishing respect and legitimacy. And for the record I've had CP's ( I don't even know what that abbreviation stands for) in M1, Y1, Y2, J3, J5, S1, S4 & R5 and I still think trying to compare a prep to a double up is preposterous. 90% of all athletes at Level 1-4 will never be on a worlds team or even figure out how to twist for that matter. A cartwheel can be learned in day and a double can take 5 years and 16 skills before it to master. You'er talking about novice versus expert skill sets and in our gym.. the level 1's kick serious butt and it is easy stuff compared to what a level 5 athlete must do. I would like to see a level 1 athlete pushed to vomiting during practice like our level 5's are as they are prepping for NCA/Summit or Worlds (while they work on that prep and cartwheel). Now before anyone jumps all over me.. I currently have a level 1 athlete and I KNOW HOW HARD SHE WORKS..I'm not taking away from that I'm just saying it's different. So we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. And thanks for sharing as much as you could about your insider Y5 info. I for one appreciate it. Gossip or not.

Maybe your gym is too easy on your level 1 team? I know for sure my cp vomited during practice last season on her S1 team from all the conditioning! Will love to known where you pulled the 90% about level 1-4 not making it on a worlds team!?


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[amy1k]

I think it's funny that vomiting is the sign of working hard. Lol! My kid has never vomited at cheer...except for last week and it was viral. ;) Anyway, our coaches treat teams equally. Each team works as hard as the next...minis and youth may have it slightly easier, but I can't confirm. My daughter, although she's just a lowly level four athlete at the advanced age of 14, finds level 2 to be the most difficult level physically.

 

[crazzyeyesassypants]

Sorry for the double post but I have to add that if you are feeling people are being snarky and throwing stones is probably the way YOUR post comes off, to me it came of as you were saying level 1 is easy for the athletes that are placed in it. That to me is insulting to level 1 athletes, because I know that they work just as hard and have the passion as a level five team, just because they aren't level 5 yet doesn't mean that the tumbling, choreography and stunting isn't hard for them.


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[crazzyeyesassypants]

I think it's funny that vomiting is the sign of working hard. Lol! My kid has never vomited at cheer...except for last week and it was viral. ;) Anyway, our coaches treat teams equally. Each team works as hard as the next...minis and youth may have it slightly easier, but I can't confirm. My daughter, although she's just a lowly level four athlete at the advanced age of 14, finds level 2 to be the most difficult level physically.

My CP's main team is J2 but she crosses to S1 and she has a harder time with her S1 team. S1 division is very competitive around here.


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[DaniV]

My CP's main team is J2 but she crosses to S1 and she has a harder time with her S1 team. S1 division is very competitive around here.


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Ours is too and J1 as well. The level of difficulty and amount of tumbling they need to be doing with the new subjective scoring makes their routines jam-packed.

 

[crazzyeyesassypants]

Ours is too and J1 as well. The level of difficulty and amount of tumbling they need to be doing with the new subjective scoring makes their routines jam-packed.

And they are always changing the routine, we have gone to 6 comps so far and the teams routine has been different every time.


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[cheermomof4]

Not arguingin with you... just the concept you bring up. Again, that is not totally true. Yes, I have taught athletes how to cartwheel in a day but I also have girls on my team that took MONTHS to learn how to a cartwheel and it is still ugly. I learned how to double up in one day. There are girls on my team who can't double up no matter how many times we work on it. Cartwheels need multiple skill sets mastered before they can be correctly attempted - handstand, lunge, kick, landing.... No different than perfecting a RO, BHS, and layout before starting to twist. They can be easier skills for some kids, but not everyone. I've had a few (and it is rare, so I'm not saying this is normal occurance for me) kids puke after some of their first full outs or doing back to back full-outs with conditioning during nationals season. That is because my routines are usually jam packed with lots of tumbling, max'd out jump sequences, and fast stunting. It's just as hard to them as a level 5 routine is to a level 5 athlete.

And by saying they are only doing a cartwheel and a prep - I would equate that to a RO full and full up lib. Basic level 1 and basic level 5. Just FYI, if that helps make sense where I am coming from.

If athletes are correctly placed in to the level that is appropriate for them, the difficulty of the routine to the individual athlete should be the same across the board.

THIS..... my cp was in cheer (albeit rec cheer) for 4 years before she perfected a cartwheel. Then she started taking lessons at the local gym and even with the coaches it still took her a few sessions to get it. Now with that being said once she got it, she got many skills in a short amount of time.....Maybe it was because she didn't start out at the age of 3 like so many do now a days- she started all star at age 10 and absolutely loves it and hasn't looked back. Yes there might have been some "snarky" replies- but we only give what we are given- my 0.02 is that for a TRUE lv1- their skills as they are learning them are just as hard as a new lv5 learning their skills and every level in between. I am in awe of watching y5 and j5 thinking how amazing it is to be that small and able to do so much when here's my cp who just turn 14 and is working on her lv4 skills (the slacker lol ;) ) I really hope they are able to do something bid wise for y5 at the Summit- even if it's just by video submission since there are so few teams nation wide- it would be great to see this group have representation since they are so amazing. Good luck :)

 

[CindyLou22]

Maybe your gym is too easy on your level 1 team? I know for sure my cp vomited during practice last season on her S1 team from all the conditioning! Will love to known where you pulled the 90% about level 1-4 not making it on a worlds team!?


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It's a fact. The percentage may drop to 80% at gyms like Cheer Athletics, California Allstars, Top Gun.. but it's simply a numbers versus skill set formula. 85-90% of the bulk of all gyms are athletes level 1-4. There are a number of gyms that do not even floor level 5's or maybe have 1 team. Majority of athletes will not advance pass level 4 and many that do will be used for their exceptional other skills sets...such as basing or flying but simply don't have the tumbling. I'd love to hear what the coach commenting above has to say. A large number of athletes mentally block at twisting or things start moving so fast and the pressure/time/effort/financial commitment prove to great. Even if a gym floors a team in every single worlds division let's say like a program like Cheer Athletics.. (and I'm not even sure they floor a team in every division - i think they actually don't) you're talking about a total of around 300 athletes on those teams. I'm not positive but I think Cheer Athletics has 4 locations, California All Stars is up to 6 or 7 and for each location they have 1 or 2 worlds teams. Obviously a big gym increases your chances but then you also have to factor in all the athletes that will come from small gyms and compete for those spots. Not to mention the original point of kids not being able to attain the full skill set. It seems to me that unless you come from a gymnastics background you have to get an early start to build a full worlds skill set. I have a girlfriend who's daughter started at 12 and is an incredible flyer and is very athletic..but just can't get all her tumbling. It's as if she's just to old and her sense of self preservation in regards to running full speed and flinging her body through the air while twisting is a no go. She's been working at it for 4 years now. Now there is always an athlete that is an exception to that.. but getting started late in the game definitely impacts things too.

 

[CAmom66]

My CP's main team is J2 but she crosses to S1 and she has a harder time with her S1 team. S1 division is very competitive around here.


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J2 Large or Small. My CP is J2 also (Large). Just wondering if they ever compete against each other.