All-Star Too Many Boys On The Floor

[Mr May]

i just do not know what people expect. despite my personal feelings on the situation, i can tell you that nothing good comes from backing someone into a corner. quick reaction is never a good thing. give them the benefit of the doubt, i am sure they are formulating something. if by this time next week nobody has said anything, then light the torches.

 

[ztaprincess]

I guess people want answers because things don't seem to make sense. In 09 when Bangkok was in the IOC6 division they were called for their legalities and things were fixed. This year it seems they were not called for it at all. Also the fact that all divisions but this one had their scores and breakdowns released makes people scratch their heads. Mainly we don't want anything fishy going on, but I understand completely what you are saying. Maybe they are getting things together so they only have to make one big statement, only time will tell.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Problem is the USASF/IASF has yet to answer why the illegal elements of their routine were overlooked. Until the scores and breakdowns are released I don't believe there is a way to move forward. There are questions left unanswered. Sure the question of the number of athletes was answered but that isn't the only rule broken. I think the illegal elements being overlooked is more important then the number of boys on the mat because it is a safety issue. All it takes is the USASF/IASF to step up and explain how things happened the way they did. The breakdowns will have some answers but I have a feeling it will lead to even more questions. They just have to not be shady about it and let people know what is what. The ball is in their court right now, but until they step up nothing positive can come of it.

*I do want to say I appreciate the comments from Andre and Les because they did step up and answer some questions, but that doesn't excuse everyone else involved.

Oh, see I didn't know they also had illegal elements in their routine....guess that's what I get for not reading all 22 pages :confused:

 

[redsmom]

i just do not know what people expect. despite my personal feelings on the situation, i can tell you that nothing good comes from backing someone into a corner. quick reaction is never a good thing. give them the benefit of the doubt, i am sure they are formulating something. if by this time next week nobody has said anything, then light the torches.

At a minimum, I'd like to see Texas get a bronze globe and medals. I sincerely hope that is in the works!

 

[cheer8]

..I played soccer for 12 years. A year on all-star, and a couple years watching my brother/sister play allstar (all that running up and down a field isn't my thing) :) But I stand by what I said- soccer is easier to learn the basics of than cheer is, and I think it requires a similar type of athleticism as to other sports we as a country excel at. We have a much greater soccer presence here (percentage-wise) than other countries have for cheer in THEIR respective countries.

I think you meant well, and I get the spirit of your post (which I think I wrote in my original bit), but the tone of it sort-of put me off. Obviously they're going to get there eventually, but it seemed like you wanted them to get there TOMORROW and be perfect. Which is not the case..and it seemed like you were dismissing the mitigating factors that put us in this situation in the first place. And it's great YOU or someone you know is a good tumbling coach-but what if they don't have good tumbling coaches? Kinda brings us back full circle..it's all well and good to speak in hypothetical about what they should/shouldn't/can/will do, but we don't know what it's like over there (wherever there is!). I'd wager they're doing the best than can with what they have. They're where we were 10 years ago. And it took us that long to be as good as we are now. The fact that they're catching up relatively quickly in most areas is admirable.

I got a shimmy or so too, so I'd wager the truth of the matter lies somewhere in the middle..as always :D

No tone, sorry wish typing was easier to express!
I'd say 75/25 in favor of 12 year olds being able to stay where they are at and be able if Parents and coaches want them on the senior teams! ;) LOL! I hope!

 

[kisscheer18]

intention and purpose does not matter.

Please quit quoting me if your going to take my words out of context, thank you.

 

[GDaddyLS]

Many Sports compete in many different Countries speaking many languages, the rules however are always enforced with the same effort, for the SAFETY of the participants! What happens when one team takes advantage of “loopholes” created by Officials interpreting the rules in any Internationally recognized SPORT, with a non-profit NGB (National Governing Board)? Would any other NGB support this type of offense to the detriment of all other participants due to any single judge or other Officials “interpretation of rules?”

At times one must wonder how the IASF, which has more than 50% of the Board of Directors filled by VB (Varsity Brands) company representatives, who is served by the Board of directors? Is growing VB Corporate income the primary task of the Board of Directors, or is the primary task offering Safe & consistent rule enforcement leading to recognition for accomplishments within the rules? Whom do you think was best served by allowing Bangkok to retain this title, the interest of VB business expansion, or selecting the best Squad consistent with current rules?

Interesting, … very interesting!

Let the conspiracy theorists begin! surprising it took this long for someone to say something like this... Varsity does NOT control the USASF contrary to your belief its simply NOT true... This is just stupid!

Actully the USASF Board of Directors is made up of 21 people... Here's the link to the USASF website that lists all members of the Board. http://usasf.net/members/board/ You will see only 5 of the 21 members of the B.O.D. are from Varsity Brands. Thats less than 25% of the board, which is also far less than the "50%" you stated...

Also if you scroll down and look at the National Advisory Board of Event producers which consists of 10 members only 2 are form VB.

Its just a terrible situation that in my opinion really has no good explanation other than they (the USASF) screwed up. PERIOD! I'm not condoning what happened and obviously the more details that come out or the more it seems details are being hidden or covered up it just makes us as an all star community more and more irritated. But to imply that a company was trying to protect their business interest is plain ridiculous! Clearly this has pissed more people off than it has made happy so what good would it do "IF" your conspiracy theory were true? Absolutely none!
National Advisory Board - Event Producers

 

[newcheerdad]

..I played soccer for 12 years. A year on all-star, and a couple years watching my brother/sister play allstar (all that running up and down a field isn't my thing) :) But I stand by what I said- soccer is easier to learn the basics of than cheer is, and I think it requires a similar type of athleticism as to other sports we as a country excel at. We have a much greater soccer presence here (percentage-wise) than other countries have for cheer in THEIR respective countries.

I think you meant well, and I get the spirit of your post (which I think I wrote in my original bit), but the tone of it sort-of put me off. Obviously they're going to get there eventually, but it seemed like you wanted them to get there TOMORROW and be perfect. Which is not the case..and it seemed like you were dismissing the mitigating factors that put us in this situation in the first place. And it's great YOU or someone you know is a good tumbling coach-but what if they don't have good tumbling coaches? Kinda brings us back full circle..it's all well and good to speak in hypothetical about what they should/shouldn't/can/will do, but we don't know what it's like over there (wherever there is!). I'd wager they're doing the best than can with what they have. They're where we were 10 years ago. And it took us that long to be as good as we are now. The fact that they're catching up relatively quickly in most areas is admirable.

I got a shimmy or so too, so I'd wager the truth of the matter lies somewhere in the middle..as always :D

The U.S. has spent tens of millions of dollars, created (and lost money) on a professional league, and greatly improved facilities in order to become a soccer power. And after 20+ years of this concerted effort, the U.S. is better. But they're by no means a power, and this is in large part due to the fact that the rest of the world has had a decades-long head start.

It is unrealistic to think in countries where all-star cheer is in its infancy that they can catch up to the U.S. right away, not without greatly improved coaching and infrastructure.

 

[AndyT_T]

Why does USAF limit the boys when all other comps don't?

 

[Deleted member 15]

Let the conspiracy theorists begin! surprising it took this long for someone to say something like this... Varsity does NOT control the USASF contrary to your belief its simply NOT true... This is just stupid!

Actully the USASF Board of Directors is made up of 21 people... Here's the link to the USASF website that lists all members of the Board. http://usasf.net/members/board/ You will see only 5 of the 21 members of the B.O.D. are from Varsity Brands. Thats less than 25% of the board, which is also far less than the "50%" you stated...

According to http://usasf.net/contact/governance/ the USASF Board of Directors has 13 voting members and 3 non voting members, for a total of 16. The difference in the 21 on the page you linked to and the 16 I reference being the Alumni Members.

Of the 13 Voting Members, 5 are representatives of Varsity Brands (ACA, NCA, UCA, UDA, and USA), and bolded below. Those that say the USASF is controlled by Varsity often include the USASF Representatives, Jim Chadwick and Steve Peterson, as Varsity people because they worked for Varsity immediately prior to USASF.

The USASF Board of Directors:

1. USASF Chairman – Jim Chadwick
2. USASF Representative – Steve Peterson
3. ACA Representative – Lance Wagers
4. CHEERSPORT Representative – Jeff Fowlkes
5. JAM Brands Representative – Aaron Flaker
6. NCA Representative – Karen Halterman
7. UCA Representative – John Newby
8. UDA Representative – Catherine Morris
9. USA Representative – Mike Burgess
10. NACCC Representative – Elaine Pascale
11. Coach Representative – Jody Melton, Cheer Athletics
12. Coach Representative – Mac Hirshberg, Mac’s All-Stars
13. Coach Representative – Happy Hooper, ACE Cheer Company

Non-Voting Members:

• IEP Representative – Colleen Little
• JAM Brands Representative – Steve Wedge
• Varsity Brands Representative – James Speed

 

[Deleted member 15]

Our team was screwed over by these so called USASF safety judges at Worlds...still upset and bitter to tell the story but they are worthless in my eyes.....

(I really should know better than to do this, but oh well. I should probably also say Happy Mother's Day now because it may come across as sarcastic by the time this conversation ends.)

@WyldWon - Do you mind letting us know how we screwed you at Worlds?

Happy Mother's Day.

 

[Deleted member 15]

And do you know how well this excuse holds up with the merchants I deal with on a day to day basis? Sorry, in the business world, that doesn't fly. If you didn't read what you signed, tough beans. You suck it up and face the music.

How about courts? Many signed waivers don't hold up in court because there needs to be a clear understanding of what is being signed.

 

[WyldWon]

(I really should know better than to do this, but oh well. I should probably also say Happy Mother's Day now because it may come across as sarcastic by the time this conversation ends.)

@WyldWon - Do you mind letting us know how we screwed you at Worlds?

Happy Mother's Day.

On day 2 of finals our kids were in 7th place going in (small ltd coed)...this was our first year we had a really good team and were so excited we made it so far...other years we never made it past the first day and our goal was to make top 10. We had sent our routine out to at least 10 people who included comp promoters, judges, safey people...we also competed THE SAME routine at 5 bids comps and never had and issue....there were also 3 safety judges on the warmup mats beforehand...NOW, in finals we were called out on an illegal inversion in the pyramid...our coach said it was a dismount and realod and the judges thought otherwise...we got a 5 pt deduction whice dropped us to 13th place and off the podium....why why why, after taking all the precautions our kids took the hit...we were never ever called on this, our routine was competed at least 15 time throught the year and getting the go ahead from so many people the kids got crushed...the rules are so ambiguous. The same thing happened to Brandon but it was caught day one...we did not get the chance to correct....any comments would be appreciated~ Thanks for listening

 

[cupieqt]

On day 2 of finals our kids were in 7th place going in (small ltd coed)...this was our first year we had a really good team and were so excited we made it so far...other years we never made it past the first day and our goal was to make top 10. We had sent our routine out to at least 10 people who included comp promoters, judges, safey people...we also competed THE SAME routine at 5 bids comps and never had and issue....there were also 3 safety judges on the warmup mats beforehand...NOW, in finals we were called out on an illegal inversion in the pyramid...our coach said it was a dismount and realod and the judges thought otherwise...we got a 5 pt deduction whice dropped us to 13th place and off the podium....why why why, after taking all the precautions our kids took the hit...we were never ever called on this, our routine was competed at least 15 time throught the year and getting the go ahead from so many people the kids got crushed...the rules are so ambiguous. The same thing happened to Brandon but it was caught day one...we did not get the chance to correct....any comments would be appreciated~ Thanks for listening

It is VERY hard for me to explain to kids and their parents that legalities are not always caught and when they are, you're pretty much screwed---even if you've done everything to make sure it's all legal and rules are followed.
I'm a rule fo-ll-ow-er, but this is the most frustrating issue for me because of this exact thing---a deduction at the worst possible time and not one chance for correction--GAME OVER. I can totally empathize the feeling of extreme frustration and anger you are experiencing right now.

 

[coachrah]

According to http://usasf.net/contact/governance/ the USASF Board of Directors has 13 voting members and 3 non voting members, for a total of 16. The difference in the 21 on the page you linked to and the 16 I reference being the Alumni Members.

Of the 13 Voting Members, 5 are representatives of Varsity Brands (ACA, NCA, UCA, UDA, and USA), and bolded below. Those that say the USASF is controlled by Varsity often include the USASF Representatives, Jim Chadwick and Steve Peterson, as Varsity people because they worked for Varsity immediately prior to USASF.

The USASF Board of Directors:

1. USASF Chairman – Jim Chadwick
2. USASF Representative – Steve Peterson
3. ACA Representative – Lance Wagers
4. CHEERSPORT Representative – Jeff Fowlkes
5. JAM Brands Representative – Aaron Flaker
6. NCA Representative – Karen Halterman
7. UCA Representative – John Newby
8. UDA Representative – Catherine Morris
9. USA Representative – Mike Burgess
10. NACCC Representative – Elaine Pascale
11. Coach Representative – Jody Melton, Cheer Athletics
12. Coach Representative – Mac Hirshberg, Mac’s All-Stars
13. Coach Representative – Happy Hooper, ACE Cheer Company

Non-Voting Members:

• IEP Representative – Colleen Little
• JAM Brands Representative – Steve Wedge
• Varsity Brands Representative – James Speed

so basically 7 out of 13...more than half are Varsity representation?