All-Star Too Small A Venue

[kristenthegreat]

Adding- looking at the past results, it REALLY would only affect IOC5. IO5 had a wide variety of talent in terms of countries. CSS did VERY well (2nd or 3rd, can't remember!)..IOC6 and IO6 both had strong international teams, also many American teams don't compete that division. IOC5 is the major sticking point?

If someone can find a way to make it work with IOC5, I think you'd have a strong case to get all the score sheets adjusted. I don't think it'd have much impact on placings for other divisions.

 

[Aussiekat]

So how far do they need to progress until we no longer need to give them competitive advantages in regards to the scoresheet or set up of finals?

Please note that I am only referring to club team Worlds - not ICU. ICU is set up to be country vs country so the whole limit teams by gym address makes sense in that context.

I think this goes hand in hand with when worlds can be reasonably expected to move from Orlando to another country, not simply another city within America… which I can't imagine is any time soon.

I am not privy to any inside information whatsoever, I will admit to wild speculation here, but perhaps the limit per country rule is partially the IASF acknowledging the cost of international teams travelling to worlds. I'm not saying that an almost free-pass through to finals is right or appropriate, but it may make the prospect of shelling out thousands of dollars for one competition slightly more palatable. I don't agree with this, but I also feel that the sheer monetary advantage of location for American teams (in general) should have a place in this discussion as well as the usual arguments that are raised (establishment and awareness of the sport, facilities, coaching and veteran experience, exposure to elite levels etc).

 

[cheercurl]

We need to look completely outside the box and think of this as an event that people are paying money to see and not a "Vacation Destination". So where in this country is there an arena that can be divided into multiple locations with excellent transportation and a huge selection of hotels and lodging in every budget, near a major airport?

Does such a place exist?:confused:

 

[BlueCat]

We need to look completely outside the box and think of this as an event that people are paying money to see and not a "Vacation Destination". So where in this country is there an arena that can be divided into multiple locations with excellent transportation and a huge selection of hotels and lodging in every budget, near a major airport?

Does such a place exist?:confused:

Viewing it as a sporting event and not spring break is hardly "outside the box", in my opinion. Nearly every major city's convention center would be better. There are probably hundreds of places in the US alone that would be better venues.

 

[BlueCat]

I think this goes hand in hand with when worlds can be reasonably expected to move from Orlando to another country, not simply another city within America… which I can't imagine is any time soon.

I am not privy to any inside information whatsoever, I will admit to wild speculation here, but perhaps the limit per country rule is partially the IASF acknowledging the cost of international teams travelling to worlds. I'm not saying that an almost free-pass through to finals is right or appropriate, but it may make the prospect of shelling out thousands of dollars for one competition slightly more palatable. I don't agree with this, but I also feel that the sheer monetary advantage of location for American teams (in general) should have a place in this discussion as well as the usual arguments that are raised (establishment and awareness of the sport, facilities, coaching and veteran experience, exposure to elite levels etc).

So how many points should California All Stars get as a bonus over Top Gun? It costs California much more to get there than it does for someone traveling from Miami. Should we dock Orlando All Stars a few points since they don't have to pay for hotel?

 

[kristenthegreat]

So how many points should California All Stars get as a bonus over Top Gun? It costs California much more to get there than it does for someone traveling from Miami. Should we dock Orlando All Stars a few points since they don't have to pay for hotel?

If you were handling this (and if you were, we probably would have about 10 current cheer issues solved), how would you do it? Slow fix, quick fix? We'll start with score sheet seeing as change-of-venue isn't happening this year, but scoresheets have yet to be released..

 

[cheercurl]

Viewing it as a sporting event and not spring break is hardly "outside the box", in my opinion. Nearly every major city's convention center would be better. There are probably hundreds of places in the US alone that would be better venues.

I don't know if everyone would agree with you or even the majority. Those countries traveling to the US for the first time are looking at this as "OMG Cheer Worlds and we're going to DISNEY WORLD!" LOL

 

[BlueCat]

I don't know if everyone would agree with you or even the majority. Those countries traveling to the US for the first time are looking at this as "OMG Cheer Worlds and we're going to DISNEY WORLD!" LOL

I think many cities would take great offense in suggesting that Orlando, FL is the only place in the entire country that someone from outside the US would want to go. Try suggesting to a Frenchman that the main reason you want to have an event in Paris is because of it's convenience to EuroDisney. It's not like the Olympics limit themselves to cities with a Disney theme park in them.

Regardless, I do view Worlds as a championship and not a festival. Perhaps there are others that disagree. IF, however, someone thinks that creating a novel tourist itinerary is crucial to the Worlds experience, then perhaps that is an even stronger argument NOT to have it in the same pitiful place every single year. If tourism is important, wouldn't people want to see something different from year to year?

 

[lucyemma]

I think many cities would take great offense in suggesting that Orlando, FL is the only place in the entire country that someone from outside the US would want to go.

I personally could not care less about going to a Disney park and I know that a lot of the British teams don't actually stay in Orlando for the majority of their stay, they go to a gym in FL and train in the week until around Thursday when they move into the Disney hotel. Disney parks are just 'something' to do but I am pretty sue that there is 'something' to do in every major city. Being that most international teams are 15+ I think being somewhere like Disney is even less of an issue. I would peronally love to go to worlds in Dallas or Georgia for a change.

 

[BlueCat]

If you were handling this (and if you were, we probably would have about 10 current cheer issues solved), how would you do it? Slow fix, quick fix? We'll start with score sheet seeing as change-of-venue isn't happening this year, but scoresheets have yet to be released..

Adopt the Varsity scoresheet as the universal standard for all divisions, including Worlds. (Most tried-and-true and vetted scoresheet at this point, not that I necessarily view it as intrinsically superior to the others.) <<As soon as feasible, this is replaced by the new universal scoresheet>>

Everyone starts in round 1. 1st round starts with at larges, partials, then paids, but random within those groups. Every other round is reverse order of rankings from previous rounds.

If division > 30 (prelims, semis, finals)
Top 20 (or top 1/2, whichever is larger) advance to semis
Top 10 advance to finals.

If division < 31 (prelims, finals)
Top 10 advance to finals

Address of gym plays absolutely no role whatsoever in determining any result. If you aren't one of the top 10 teams in the world, you don't get to place in the top 10.

Other changes:

In Field House: completely eliminate "VIP" area. Use that space for family/friends area which is standing-room-only and completely rotates out after every team. (You get to see YOUR team, but that is it.) Only coaches with a team IN THAT DIVISION or athletes from the performing team's gym (must be in uniform) can "cut" into that rotation. This is strictly enforced.

All scoresheets are released via PDF and google doc to everyone after every round. (comments redacted)

Awards held in another venue.

A massive social media venue is set up, with EXPERT & INTERESTING commentary provided live while each teams' performance is streamed live onto 3-4 massive screens. Let them have nearly free reign to say what they want, assuming it is family-friendly. Think of a cross between Monday Night Football, Mystery Science Theater 3000, & Perez Hilton.

 

[cheercurl]

I think many cities would take great offense in suggesting that Orlando, FL is the only place in the entire country that someone from outside the US would want to go. Try suggesting to a Frenchman that the main reason you want to have an event in Paris is because of it's convenience to EuroDisney. It's not like the Olympics limit themselves to cities with a Disney theme park in them.

Regardless, I do view Worlds as a championship and not a festival. Perhaps there are others that disagree. IF, however, someone thinks that creating a novel tourist itinerary is crucial to the Worlds experience, then perhaps that is an even stronger argument NOT to have it in the same pitiful place every single year. If tourism is important, wouldn't people want to see something different from year to year?

Do you really think I offended entire countries and cities? I too view World's as a championship and never suggested otherwise. In fact I agree variety is the spice of life...different area's of the country would be a great experience for all involved. However I do think there is something "special" about Disney World, Orlando...and I think there are probably others that are drawn to that. If I offended France then let me humbly apologize to an entire country for making Euro Disney seem some how "less than".

I get the feeling not many people ever disagree with you and I mean that in the nicest way, really. #just sayin

 

[Megan(:]

I have never been to worlds (only heard about and seen videos and pictures) but I think that the Dallas convention center might be a good option, especially considering the multiple halls. I've been to NCA two years now and it seems to hold people very well but it is always crowded in the hall ways were vendors are. It is also in the bottom but middle of the country. Would it work?

 

[Aussiekat]

So how many points should California All Stars get as a bonus over Top Gun? It costs California much more to get there than it does for someone traveling from Miami. Should we dock Orlando All Stars a few points since they don't have to pay for hotel?

Hmmmm 0.5 per 1000km sounds reasonable, and nothing docked from OA because they let me train in their gym ;)

I don't agree with the rule, but I would benefit from it if my team could afford to go… so there's my bias exposed…

 

[BlueCat]

Do you really think I offended entire countries and cities? I too view World's as a championship and never suggested otherwise. In fact I agree variety is the spice of life...different area's of the country would be a great experience for all involved. However I do think there is something "special" about Disney World, Orlando...and I think there are probably others that are drawn to that. If I offended France then let me humbly apologize to an entire country for making Euro Disney seem some how "less than".

I get the feeling not many people ever disagree with you and I mean that in the nicest way, really. #just sayin

I guess I didn't mean that as harshly as it sounded. I didn't mean that you in particular offended anyone. I have heard many times that the event couldn't move from DisneyWorld because of it's unique atmosphere. I happen to disagree. I was more arguing with the idea that it HAS to be in Orlando.

I have been in multiple committee and board meetings where this topic has been discussed, so I tend to jump right to the end points of the argument. There are multiple reasons to argue FOR it being at Disney every year, I just happen to think that the negatives far outweigh the positives. However, even I would admit that it is not a simple or obvious decision.

It is absolutely OK to disagree with me, and people do all of the time. I am wrong more often than I like to admit.

 

[cheercurl]

I guess I didn't mean that as harshly as it sounded. I didn't mean that you in particular offended anyone. I have heard many times that the event couldn't move from DisneyWorld because of it's unique atmosphere. I happen to disagree. I was more arguing with the idea that it HAS to be in Orlando.

I have been in multiple committee and board meetings where this topic has been discussed, so I tend to jump right to the end points of the argument. There are multiple reasons to argue FOR it being at Disney every year, I just happen to think that the negatives far outweigh the positives. However, even I would admit that it is not a simple or obvious decision.

It is absolutely OK to disagree with me, and people do all of the time. I am wrong more often than I like to admit.

You are more than right the negatives do out way any positives and the sooner the committees and board members can see that, the sooner we can all watch World's in peace at a facility that can comfortably hold all that want to attend.