All-Star True Level 5 Stunts - Are We Living A Lie?

[4me2Kno]

I think the board need a "simmer down" button.

I think this is a very relevant topic for discussion - and i hoped my opinions were stated in a respectful way - didn't think my opinions warranted a "simmer down", but thanks for readin :)

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I think this is a very relevant topic for discussion - and i hoped my opinions were stated in a respectful way - didn't think my opinions warranted a "simmer down", but thanks for readin :)

I agree. I think this is something people feel passionate about and has been the topic of discussion long before this thread.

 

[championprincess]

First off, I respect your opinion, ... very explanatory in their explanations of routine element requirements for scoring ranges and it hasn't led to less creative routines...

I'm a little upset that I could only shimmy this 1 time!

 

[kjstepone]

Not disagreeing with the topic what-so-ever. Guess I just read all the bolded and caps lock words as something that they weren't. Moving on.. :)

 

[socratesofcheer]

@4me2Kno

Allow me to rephrase: because it's legal in level 4 does not disqualify a skill from being elite.

So, if you ignore every level in cheerleading except level 5, what is an elite entry?
I would say a 1,1.25,&1.5 ups are all elite skills. I would also say that all variations of tick to ticks are also elite. Switch ups... ehhh maybe advanced maybe elite.

 

[4me2Kno]

@4me2Kno

Allow me to rephrase: because it's legal in level 4 does not disqualify a skill from being elite.

So, if you ignore every level in cheerleading except level 5, what is an elite entry?
I would say a 1,1.25,&1.5 ups are all elite skills. I would also say that all variations of tick to ticks are also elite. Switch ups... ehhh maybe advanced maybe elite.

So, if you ignore every level in cheerleading except level 5, what is an elite entry?

If you look just from a rules stand point (as the current rules are set up), and ignoring all other levels, a true level 5 entry should be a level 5 skill. Not legal at other levels.

- 1 and 3/4 up - difficulty ranging from: to 2 feet sponge, to 2 feet prep level, 2 feet extended level, 1 foot with varying degree of difficulty body positions
- Double Up - difficulty ranging from: to 2 feet sponge, 2 feet prep level, 2 feet extended level, 1 foot with varying degree of difficulty body positions
- Ball Up Release Move - If tossed above extended arm level below 18 inches above - difficulty ranging from: To 2 feet, 1 foot, body positions, etc...
- Twisting Ball Up Release Moves - If tossed above extended arm level below 18 inches above - difficulty ranging from: To 2 feet, 1 foot, body positions, etc...
- Entry Stunts that go Directly into Inversions originating from extended level

All level 5 unique

The way the rules are set up, some of the above skill sets are extremely difficult, but true level 5, and not many skills to qualify...

At what other level can you do a skill from a level down skill set and get current level credit?

Level 4 can do full ups... They are legal at level 4... A level 4 team that does squad half ups (The Max/Elite end of level 3) should not expect to get level 4 credit for a skill set legal at the level below... Level 5 can do 1 and 3/4 ups to double ups, they are legal at level 5. A level 5 team that does squad full ups or 1 and 1/2 ups (The Max/elite end of level 4) should not expect to get level 5 credit for a skill set legal at the level below... Thats my thought process for the way the rules are currently set up...

The thing is I agree with you for the most part. The skills in question I believe are elite, and should be classified as level 5 and not level 4, but as the rules are written they are level 4 skills. So the problem is some of these very hard skills being legal at level 4 - I would say 1.25 and up to one legged stunts should be elite level 5 skills. Full ups to 2 feet or even full up to body positions are ok in my book at level 4, let them max out there. Tick tocks my vote would be for them to be in level 5 all together, but would be ok with lib to lib tick tock being the max for level 4 and leave variations and harder body positions to level 5... Switch ups should be ok in level 4, good progression, but I wouldn't say is an elite level 5 skill...

I do agree with you mostly on what should be level 5/ELITE, but the way these skills are currently classified, many of these difficult elements being level 4 skills should not get you level 5 credit... Level 4 skills should not get you level 5 credit just as level 3 skills should not get you level 4 credit, so on and so forth... If these skills are the elite of our sport, classify them in the right levels... Until then, under the current classifications with regards to the top range on the worlds scoresheet, level 5 skills should get you level 5 credit.

Am I crazy for thinking this?

 

[socratesofcheer]

@4me2Kno

I do not think you are crazy. I think you are making well thought points. I completely understand that basically all of the stunts that you see in level 5 are legal in level 4(minus dismount). However, you are not ignoring all other levels for this argument.
So, if there was only one competition (worlds) and only one division (all-girl) and only one level (amazing) what is an elite stunt?

 

[4me2Kno]

@4me2Kno

I do not think you are crazy. I think you are making well thought points. I completely understand that basically all of the stunts that you see in level 5 are legal in level 4(minus dismount). However, you are not ignoring all other levels for this argument.
So, if there was only one competition (worlds) and only one division (all-girl) and only one level (amazing) what is an elite stunt?

I gave a stunt that was complete/unique with level 5 skills in the very first post - (no lower level skills). (Load Ins, transitions, Dismount, multiple body positions)... There are lots of ways to make even that sequence more difficult within level 5 as well. Again the most recent post I made, asked at what other level can we fill a stunt sequence with lower level skills and expect to get current level credit?

Previous sequence, that besides body positions (which are what they are at all levels) is all level 5 load ins/transitions/dismount.

Sponge toss release move (in extended to 18 inches above extended arm Level) back to sponge - Legal only at level 5
Up to Heal Stretch, Bow
Waterfall flip down inversion from extended level to cradle - Legal only at level 5
Flatback
Helicopter toss to cradle - Legal only at level 5
Sponge
Ball Up to Extension - released in level 5 height range
Scorp, Scale, aerobesque
Double Down - Level 5 Legal

Tally = 5 level 5 elements

Add a 1 and 3/4 up or twisting ball ups to body positions would add difficulty.

Also, should a stunt sequence that has more in level difficulty elements score better than one with lower level elements and in level dismount, even though the one with lower level elements is perceived to be more difficult?

 

[CrownedtheGR8est]

Yes! I've always been arguing this! You laid it out excellently.

 

[chyeeaaa69]

I'm not going to waste my time and read all of this
but when every team going to Worlds competes double ups, and 360 ball up stretch-to-stretch will be the only time anyone is satisfied with this argument.