High School Uca Vs. Nca Camp

[BuegeSmalls]

Wow coaches don't get to be with their team at NCA camp during the day? If I was a coach I wouldn't like that either. I'd want to watch and see what they're learning and how the staff is teaching it so I could remember if anyone had questions about the material after camp.


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[MHSCheercoach]

For the people that didn't enjoy their camp experiences (either UCA or NCA), what things do you think would have made them better?

Coach's thoughts:
UCA Home Camp-
I love that we get individual attention and since the majority of my squad are very new to cheerleading this makes camp more relaxing for them so they don't feel inferior to tons of other girls. I like how I can pick and choose what to learn so it's very customized. I like the idea of stunt progression as I do this with my team as well.
Now for the negatives:
* Stunt progression is slow and painful process which keeps us from even getting to pyramids and transitions. Granted I know I have a fairly new squad, but there is no need for them to do so many useless stunts (Peg leg, j-ups, handstand thigh stands to name a few). I have no problem with making sure our preps, extensions, cradles are solid, but from there let's move on to other stuff.
*Material taught. In a three day camp we learned 1 floor cheer, 2 sidelines, and 1 dance because the rest of the time we were playing games or talking about how to be spirited. We used 1 sideline and the floor cheer but that was it.
*Price. This is positive and negative. For home camp, the price is very affordable. For away, not affordable to my girls at all. Our school doesn't allow fundraising for camp so the girls have to pay out of their own pocket, which for some is not easy or possible at all.
We are foregoing camp this year as I feel I can teach more material in less time on my own than if we had an instructor come and do so, plus it costs the parents $0.
Suggestions:
*Offer an option for home camp that allows for the instructor to work with material the team already has and improve it or help them come up with a new floor cheer that is in that teams style. I know as a coach I have words to floor cheers for the next year already. To have extra help coming up with stunts to incorporate or motions to incorporate would be awesome.
*Stunts. Instead of slow progressions, let the team show you their hardest stunt or several stunts. Give tips if you think something could improve, but then work from there.
*Staff. I know that for home camps 1 staff member is suppose to be sufficient for a group of 12, but it's not. We had 10 girls and 1 staff and when it came to stunting, it was slow. The staff can only watch one stunt group at a time which leaves the other half twiddling their thumbs. Add more, even if that meant a little added cost, it would be beneficial.

 

[AScheer]

Coach's thoughts:
*Material taught. In a three day camp we learned 1 floor cheer, 2 sidelines, and 1 dance because the rest of the time we were playing games or talking about how to be spirited. We used 1 sideline and the floor cheer but that was it.
*Price. This is positive and negative. For home camp, the price is very affordable. For away, not affordable to my girls at all. Our school doesn't allow fundraising for camp so the girls have to pay out of their own pocket, which for some is not easy or possible at all.

Great points! Completely agree. Want to add on to both the ones I quoted.

1. Haven't done a home camp, but away camp spends a lot of time on games as well. One whole evening of camp is play. I understand the girls need metal breaks and it is team building. But we can and do lots of team building on our own time for free.

2. We are allowed to fundraise for camp but can't because of how soon it is after tryouts. I'm sure most teams and coaches are in the same boat. If you try out in April or May you don't have long before that camp bill arrives. Not only do parents have to shell out $300-$400 for camp right away, but you also have camp clothes, shoes, poms, necessary uniform items, and bags that all have to be purchased before camp too so you can use them there. It's not realistic for most teams to be able to expect all parents to write a $600 check the first month of making the team.


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[ScottyB]

there is no need for them to do so many useless stunts (Peg leg, j-ups, handstand thigh stands to name a few)

Granted the handstand thighstand isn't a progression stunt, but it is there to show your team that not all stunts have to be libs and fullups.

But the Peg legs & J-ups and such are part of progressions even if they don't seem like it. The technique needed to do a peg leg or a j-up is needed later for some skills, so getting them to do it correctly in the beginning will only help them as they progress.

*Offer an option for home camp that allows for the instructor to work with material the team already has and improve it or help them come up with a new floor cheer that is in that teams style. I know as a coach I have words to floor cheers for the next year already. To have extra help coming up with stunts to incorporate or motions to incorporate would be awesome.

As for this, give your State Directory a call and tell them you'd love a late summer/fall clinic where 1 or 2 staff can come for a couple hours on a saturday to clean up your material and help with stunting. The state directors for UCA are very flexible in what they can offer you and your team! I worked a Clinic/Camp for a coach where all we did was work their own dances and cheers til they all 'tested' out with the coach.

 

[MHSCheercoach]

Granted the handstand thighstand isn't a progression stunt, but it is there to show your team that not all stunts have to be libs and fullups.

But the Peg legs & J-ups and such are part of progressions even if they don't seem like it. The technique needed to do a peg leg or a j-up is needed later for some skills, so getting them to do it correctly in the beginning will only help them as they progress.

What stunts are these used for? In the now four years I've coached I haven't used these for anything so if there is something I'm missing please let me know.
When I attended camp, some years ago, on the first day we were already doing half ups, twist downs, baskets, etc. Literally in three days of camp we got no further than straight up extensions because we spent so much time on the other stuff we never used. I understand the importance of progression, but there is a definite need to work on pyramids, especially since I finally had a large enough squad to do pyramids.
I've found that all three times we have received very knowledgeable staff, but they are unfamiliar with how to work with my small squad. Having had two teams of 8 and one of 10, no staff has ever helped us come up with a pyramid that would work for us. Most of the time they are lost on formations for such a small squad.
Not saying the staff weren't great, I've loved all three of them, but for $180 I just expect that they teach my girls more than what I can teach them on my own.

 

[ScottyB]

What stunts are these used for? In the now four years I've coached I haven't used these for anything so if there is something I'm missing please let me know.
When I attended camp, some years ago, on the first day we were already doing half ups, twist downs, baskets, etc. Literally in three days of camp we got no further than straight up extensions because we spent so much time on the other stuff we never used. I understand the importance of progression, but there is a definite need to work on pyramids, especially since I finally had a large enough squad to do pyramids.
I've found that all three times we have received very knowledgeable staff, but they are unfamiliar with how to work with my small squad. Having had two teams of 8 and one of 10, no staff has ever helped us come up with a pyramid that would work for us. Most of the time they are lost on formations for such a small squad.
Not saying the staff weren't great, I've loved all three of them, but for $180 I just expect that they teach my girls more than what I can teach them on my own.

The techniques learned in j-ups & such are more about using your arms and legs together or in the rotation as the stunt goes up or the coed style toss that can be used for quick toss skills. It isn't blatant progression, just more technique progression. I do see your frustration in paying for the camp and your team being stuck on those skills which can be a bummer.

The difference between back then and now is the emphasis on safety. Cheerleading has been in the spotlight the last several years for being unsafe and since UCA/Varsity is one of the prominent instruction groups in cheerleading they must lead the way with heavy emphasis on skill progression and technique progression so that teams aren't doing skills beyond the level appropriate for them. Which I have felt before when I was a college coach and just wanted my kids to move on to other stuff.

As for pyramids, if you have less than 12 team members, pyramids are limited by the rules due to the amount of movement that can be done between the groups and how the groups are put together. Unless your team utilizes shoulder stands, the numbers are against you for putting up hitches or 'xmas' trees. But then that still leaves out pyramids where the middle group flips or moves because legally those require 12 team members.

Sorry to come across as just being a rebuttal to the issues you had. Camp can be frustrating with expectations and the cost paid. If you are interested in another camp or clinic, give your state director a call and let them know exactly what you want and what you want your team to get from the session with staff, they will be more than accommodating to your needs!

 

[MHSCheercoach]

The techniques learned in j-ups & such are more about using your arms and legs together or in the rotation as the stunt goes up or the coed style toss that can be used for quick toss skills. It isn't blatant progression, just more technique progression. I do see your frustration in paying for the camp and your team being stuck on those skills which can be a bummer.

The difference between back then and now is the emphasis on safety. Cheerleading has been in the spotlight the last several years for being unsafe and since UCA/Varsity is one of the prominent instruction groups in cheerleading they must lead the way with heavy emphasis on skill progression and technique progression so that teams aren't doing skills beyond the level appropriate for them. Which I have felt before when I was a college coach and just wanted my kids to move on to other stuff.

As for pyramids, if you have less than 12 team members, pyramids are limited by the rules due to the amount of movement that can be done between the groups and how the groups are put together. Unless your team utilizes shoulder stands, the numbers are against you for putting up hitches or 'xmas' trees. But then that still leaves out pyramids where the middle group flips or moves because legally those require 12 team members.

Sorry to come across as just being a rebuttal to the issues you had. Camp can be frustrating with expectations and the cost paid. If you are interested in another camp or clinic, give your state director a call and let them know exactly what you want and what you want your team to get from the session with staff, they will be more than accommodating to your needs!

I understand the focus on safety as I am one of those coaches that follows the rules to a T because if an athlete gets hurt I have to answer for that. I take every precaution possible because I know what it's like to live with life long injuries due to cheerleading. Again with the pyramids, I know our options are limited, but that's the problem, none of the previous staff have even tried to address that issue, instead we are stuck trying to come up with it on our own.
I know that you are speaking from a staff members perspective and honestly for some schools camp is necessary especially for the team bonding experience, but for us it doesn't seem to be a great fit. Between cost, which most girls struggle with affording, and us not using the majority of the material taught, I think we are going to take a year off, try it my new way and see how it works.
Thanks for your perspective as I do appreciate that, it's good to always look at things from both sides. :)

 

[lisa G]

i had two squad last year. one went to UCA and one to NCA. It was my first experience with either. I WAY preferred the NCA camp. Here was the differences...

- team buddies - to this day i could not tell us what our UCA buddies name was or what she looked like while our NCA buddy Olivia even gave me her email in case we needed help or clarifications after leaving camp.

- UCA gave very little time to the coaches for information sharing and coaches learning was all by watching videos. NCA had separate coaches sessions that allowed sharing and the chance to talk about how others do things along with learning from an instructor. (i would advise bringing at least two coaches to camp to allow one to go to the coaches training and one to stay with squad to see what they are learning). NCA also gave the coaches a "guidebook" that had a lot of great information in it for future use by our team. We continually referred back to it throughout the season when we wanted to learn new stuff.

- UCA gave out All American nominations strictly without input but then EVERYONE who was nominated was selected. NCA did give out nominations on their own but confidently asked if there way anyone i wanted it given to because they would make the season "hell" because they didn't get one. It was nice to be asked just in case i had that problem (which i didn't). There were 2 i requested they NOT give one two based on attitudes but as a coach i decided to let them make the decisions. Out of the 50-60 that tried out only three from camp were selected (one being from our squad). I felt that they ones selected actually demonstrated what being an "All American" was all about. I felt NCA did a WAY better job at this then UCA.
- Baskets - At UCA you were required to demonstrate that you could do a straight up extenstion with a cradle to even attend the basket class. At NCA all teams were required to demonstrate that they could do the drills leading up to a basket prior to being allowed to do them. IMO is was better for us at NCA because UCA did not allow us to even work on the drills to learning a basket toss so we left camp with girls who had no idea what they even were. At NCA we left camp with the basic drills that allowed us to continue to practice those after leaving so that we were able to put them in right after the beginning of the football season.

In the end i much preferred NCA as their routines and such were more our style and we used them throughout the whole season and only once did we use any of the UCA material. We will be returning to NCA this year with both squads and because they are not having a 4 day camp in our area this year, the State Director worked with me and for the same price as a 4 day camp we are getting the three day camp and a one day private camp which may work out for us better in the end because it will allow us to get specialized help in the areas we need on that one day at home.

 

[CoachD]

We did the NCA Speed Camp last year and ABSOLUTELY loved it!

 

[AScheer]

Question for any UCA/NCA Staff and/or coaches who take squads to camps. What do you give to your buddy? Staffers, what would you most appreciate? Every single time we've been to camp, I forget to grab a gift and have to scramble last minute. This year I'm trying to be prepared, but am finding it hard to buy something when I don't know if our camp buddy will be a guy or a girl.

 

[omgitssydthekid]

Question for any UCA/NCA Staff and/or coaches who take squads to camps. What do you give to your buddy? Staffers, what would you most appreciate? Every single time we've been to camp, I forget to grab a gift and have to scramble last minute. This year I'm trying to be prepared, but am finding it hard to buy something when I don't know if our camp buddy will be a guy or a girl.

I've had my buddies write me letters (loved this, I still have them), I've received candy/snacks, school shirts (I do love shirts), tumblers with the school's name on it (loved this too). But I LOVE when they bring me one of their shirts/bows that they wear on fun day because I get to wear it all day and match with them. I love when I get dressed up for fun day [emoji1]


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[BuegeSmalls]

Question for any UCA/NCA Staff and/or coaches who take squads to camps. What do you give to your buddy? Staffers, what would you most appreciate? Every single time we've been to camp, I forget to grab a gift and have to scramble last minute. This year I'm trying to be prepared, but am finding it hard to buy something when I don't know if our camp buddy will be a guy or a girl.

The only thing I've ever gotten was a t-shirt and I honestly wear it all the time. One of my sisters got a bow key chain with the school's letters on it which she keeps on her bag. I think that's really cute! Oh and once this one team made the entire staff these little books on a key chain ring. Each girl wrote the staff member a little message about how we helped them at camp. It was adorable and I keep mine on my desk. Might be a cute team bonding idea for a night at camp? You could just do it for your big sis/bro instead of all the staff.


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[GForce]

Question for any UCA/NCA Staff and/or coaches who take squads to camps. What do you give to your buddy? Staffers, what would you most appreciate? Every single time we've been to camp, I forget to grab a gift and have to scramble last minute. This year I'm trying to be prepared, but am finding it hard to buy something when I don't know if our camp buddy will be a guy or a girl.

My littles last year gave me one of their bows! I don't think there is anything we appreciate over another because it's just nice to be recognized by something (plus not every school does that) and regardless of what it is, it's something we can look at and remember our summer/that camp by!

ETA: oh yeah and as my sister mentioned, at one camp a whole team wrote us little letters. It was awesome to see what each girl had to say about camp and show how you impacted each cheerleader. That's definitely something I will always save!

 

[AScheer]

I've had my buddies write me letters (loved this, I still have them), I've received candy/snacks, school shirts (I do love shirts), tumblers with the school's name on it (loved this too). But I LOVE when they bring me one of their shirts/bows that they wear on fun day because I get to wear it all day and match with them. I love when I get dressed up for fun day [emoji1]


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The only thing I've ever gotten was a t-shirt and I honestly wear it all the time. One of my sisters got a bow key chain with the school's letters on it which she keeps on her bag. I think that's really cute! Oh and once this one team made the entire staff these little books on a key chain ring. Each girl wrote the staff member a little message about how we helped them at camp. It was adorable and I keep mine on my desk. Might be a cute team bonding idea for a night at camp? You could just do it for your big sis/bro instead of all the staff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My littles last year gave me one of their bows! I don't think there is anything we appreciate over another because it's just nice to be recognized by something (plus not every school does that) and regardless of what it is, it's something we can look at and remember our summer/that camp by!

ETA: oh yeah and as my sister mentioned, at one camp a whole team wrote us little letters. It was awesome to see what each girl had to say about camp and show how you impacted each cheerleader. That's definitely something I will always save!

Thanks for the all the ideas! Hadn't thought of any of that, so you've all definitely given me some ideas!

 

[jessicastuart]

Like a lot of others have said, it's about what kind of style your team as well as the style of competition your teams attend. NCA is 100% for us. I love everything about the curriculum.

I attended UCA once when i was in middle school. I can't remember much about it.. And that was 2002.. But I'm sure they're just as great, as long as their curriculum reflect what your team needs.