All-Star Unassisted Stunting Just For Coed Divisions

[King]

Will actual coed stunting be rewarded this year? That is what I am curious of. Because of all the routines I have seen no one is majority unassisted coed. Its all one or two guys and then everyone else is assistance.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

Will actual coed stunting be rewarded this year? That is what I am curious of. Because of all the routines I have seen no one is majority unassisted coed. Its all one or two guys and then everyone else is assistance.

No score sheet besides worlds really gives a benefit to doing true coed stunts that I have seen so far. I think the worlds coed stunting section will really separate people this year, but no where else.

 

[BlueCat]

It will take time for gyms to adjust to the decision to put more emphasis on coed stunting. It has been relatively unimportant score-wise for years, so most have not been training the guys to do those skills up to now.

While I like the idea of guys doing actual coed stunts, I fear the unintended consequences. For better or worse, we now have a bit less incentive to develop tumbling/jumps/motions/etc in the guys. As those are the things that most American gyms have built their business around, that could potentially be a negative thing.

 

[AndyT_T]

Will actual coed stunting be rewarded this year? That is what I am curious of. Because of all the routines I have seen no one is majority unassisted coed. Its all one or two guys and then everyone else is assistance.

Thats because the only guys who can really do it are the junior/senior guys.
Boys just dont develop the same, a 13 year old girl may be in the body theyre gonna have forever, but a 13 year old boy may just be starting puberty.
Late high school guys can generally do the basics of partner stunting (for example I can "toss extension" but it's really more of a toss half of the way between hands and extension and then I press up.) and mid to late college is when developmentally theyre at the point where theyve gained the muscle mass to do the complex stuff.
The guys in late hs who can rewind to cupie that everyone always drools over tend to not be able to tumble for a similar reason, just reversed.

For me, I went to college tryouts ashamed because I thought my stunting was so poor. When the coed stunting section came up I was embarrassed to go.
If you want me to back/base a sick 1.5 up to stretch double, Im your man. But I cant partner stunt my way out of a paper bag.
But, when I went I saw that all of the other hs seniors who were going could pretty much do the same thing I do. And thats all the coach expected. She told me that most guys come in not being strong enough to do hardcore partner stunts and it takes a year or two for their bodies to finish developing.

I got a personal trainer and worked my butt off and scared the crap out of my dad (a pediatrician) and realistically, if I ever do bulk up any more, it will be later in life.
Sorry, rant over.

 

[AndrewSky]

This is why I'm happy I learned to partner stunt before I learned how to tumble. Now, I'm throwing level five skills with unassisted toss libs. Cannot wait for college cheer :)

 

[Ashley]

Thats because the only guys who can really do it are the junior/senior guys.
Boys just dont develop the same, a 13 year old girl may be in the body theyre gonna have forever, but a 13 year old boy may just be starting puberty.
Late high school guys can generally do the basics of partner stunting (for example I can "toss extension" but it's really more of a toss half of the way between hands and extension and then I press up.) and mid to late college is when developmentally theyre at the point where theyve gained the muscle mass to do the complex stuff.
The guys in late hs who can rewind to cupie that everyone always drools over tend to not be able to tumble for a similar reason, just reversed.

For me, I went to college tryouts ashamed because I thought my stunting was so poor. When the coed stunting section came up I was embarrassed to go.
If you want me to back/base a sick 1.5 up to stretch double, Im your man. But I cant partner stunt my way out of a paper bag.
But, when I went I saw that all of the other hs seniors who were going could pretty much do the same thing I do. And thats all the coach expected. She told me that most guys come in not being strong enough to do hardcore partner stunts and it takes a year or two for their bodies to finish developing.

I got a personal trainer and worked my butt off and scared the crap out of my dad (a pediatrician) and realistically, if I ever do bulk up any more, it will be later in life.
Sorry, rant over.

Your college coach only expected that because there hasn't been a push for single based coed stunting in all-stars (or even in high school really). It is possible, I know a few senior aged boys at gyms that have always pushed coed stunting who can do unassisted toss libs. It's not easy, and not everyone will be able to do it, so the teams that can should be rewarded for it, even if it's "only" toss extensions. Single based stunts on a senior team are probably never going to completely take over the stunt section. We'll always have an elite section where you can back/base your 1.5 up to stretch double.

And being able to coed stunt is more about technique that size. I know many guys who are rather small who have excellent technique and can do rewinds. I also know lots of huge guys who can technically hit the stunt, but the flyer is scared for her life.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

One of the other things is flyers. While i know it is easier to teach a flyer how to coed stunt then a boy to base it, things are always easier when someone is experienced. So when you combine inexperienced boys with inexperienced flyers, it makes things a lot harder. Obviously people that have mastered coed stunting can work with flyers with little to no experience, but that isn't the case with everyone.

 

[King]

And height. Girls that are lighter are easier to hold up than girls who are heavier, but for all girl stunting how tall a flyer is has never had much impact on how easy it is to stunt. In coed stunting the shorter a flyer the easier it is to toss. (along with that the taller a boy is the easier it is to stunt where being a group base height matters little as long as you have someone to match you).

 

[Ashley]

And height. Girls that are lighter are easier to hold up than girls who are heavier, but for all girl stunting how tall a flyer is has never had much impact on how easy it is to stunt. In coed stunting the shorter a flyer the easier it is to toss. (along with that the taller a boy is the easier it is to stunt where being a group base height matters little as long as you have someone to match you).

It's easier for taller guys to stunt? I've always felt that, as a flyer, stunting with tall guys are the hardest because they have to toss you so much higher to reach their hands.

 

[ryann3794]

on my coed teams our only boy is a 10 year old that flys. there's no way he could put anyone up so he does a toss to hands and a girl bases him. We still get our coed points

 

[King]

It's easier for taller guys to stunt? I've always felt that, as a flyer, stunting with tall guys are the hardest because they have to toss you so much higher to reach their hands.

It is all about leverage. the taller you are the more movement you have from the moment a girl is at the bottom of her dip to the moment you flick. Now a guy who is a bean pole (6'3" and 160) won't have enough mass to do well. But a guy who is 6'3" 225 will generate a lot of power.

Take a look at the top stunting teams in college. In general your boys are 6'0" and 200+. As well the more you weigh the more solid you are at stunting. That is why there are a lot of college males who are good at stunting who might have a few extra pounds.

Now there are exceptions to ever rule (Victor Rosario is a good example. Shorter, in shape, but fantastic technique) but for a guy the bigger and taller you are the easier it is to stunt.

Now juxtapose that with a tumbler. The leaner and shorter you are the easier it is to tumble. Two completely different skill sets where body types are on opposite ends. Which is one of the reasons it is so hard to get people who can do both.

 

[ffamilyguy]

The age of "True" partner stunting is beginning. It's been around with UCA since I can remember....but, it's spreading to a lot of companies now. And I agree BlueCat....I'd rather see an unassisted toss lib, then two bases doing 1 and 1/2 up.

 

[ztaprincess]

In order to see toss libs across the board with high school boys ages 12-18 majority would need to be assisted.

Check out Graves County from UCA this past weekend. Their stunts were unassited and they are high school boys. I enjoyed watching their simply yet clean TRUE coed unassited stunts more then almost all of the small coed or all girl teams who had sloppy full ups.

I love the idea behind having this on the scoresheet, but I can count on 1 hand how many senior teams execute it well. 95% of the time it is slowing down the routine and just IMO looks sloppy. If every team could do what Cheetahs or Coed Elite do I would be in love, but teams just aren't doing it.

Another thing that I hate about it is that teams like Cheetahs and Coed Elite will probably be scored roughly the same as the teams who have 2 guys under the stunt for the majority of it.

 

[yojaehs]

Check out Graves County from UCA this past weekend. Their stunts were unassited and they are high school boys. I enjoyed watching their simply yet clean TRUE coed unassited stunts more then almost all of the small coed or all girl teams who had sloppy full ups.

I love the idea behind having this on the scoresheet, but I can count on 1 hand how many senior teams execute it well. 95% of the time it is slowing down the routine and just IMO looks sloppy. If every team could do what Cheetahs or Coed Elite do I would be in love, but teams just aren't doing it.

Another thing that I hate about it is that teams like Cheetahs and Coed Elite will probably be scored roughly the same as the teams who have 2 guys under the stunt for the majority of it.

I'm fully aware of coed stunting teams and teams that do it well, Sparkman for example has always had really good guys. My issue isn't that I don't want it, and I do feel it should be rewarded if/when done. But take it for what it is and don't blow it so far out of the water that it KILLS the rest of the routine. A "coed" section should be on the score sheet and when done well should be highly rewarded, HOWEVER, "Stunt" classes don't pay the bills, tumbling classes do and I am just tired of tumbling being slowly but steadily being KNOCKED down the food chain. I am 100% in favor of even credit rewarded across the board tumbling/stunting it's just not happening. Sorry but I coach at one of the top stunting programs in the country and I will tell you that our tumbling classes bring in much more to our business than our stunt classes. Our boys work on coed stunting, heck we have a Jr 4 girl doing double cq's and toss libs so I'm all for it but at the end of the day we work tumbling just as much if not more, so why is it being discredited? THAT is my issue. Also what about those younger boys that haven't developed yet? Are we looking to bring back Jr Coed? Is that the problem? Again, I'm not saying it doesn't happen and I'm not saying there aren't really good coed stunting teams and guys across the country, but before we change the whole dynamic of the industry lets slow down and look at how we can reward it but reward it equally. I want to see more boys stunt like men, but I also want to see and entertaining routine, well balanced with cool transitions and out of this world tumbling. Yes, there needs to be balance but be careful what you wish for, the number of TRUELY well rounded level 5 coed stunt/tumblers is limited and I look forward to more but jumping in this way could be detrimental.

 

[King]

I think the problem is very few people understand how difficult it is. A single based toss lib is probably equivalent to a 'one to dub'. For each single based toss lib in a routine you are probably sacrificing a one to double. I am not saying they are exactly equal, but that gives you an idea.

But a routine with one to doubles and assisted libs will far outscore single based toss libs and maybe some two to fulls. So because the difficulty isn't properly rewarded by the judges instead they tend to skew the percentages.