OT Why So Much Hate?

[Official OWECheer]

So I have noticed that in the gymnastics community there seems to be a very strong cheer bashing tradition. Obviously it's not ALL gymnasts, but I feel like so many people in the gym community have take any and every opportunity to insult and stereotype cheerleaders (all the while getting offended when ignorant people insult gymnastics and stereotype it as easy and girly). I understand that the tumbling on a lot of cheer teams is bad, and that lots of coaches aren't properly trained, and lots of cheerleaders aren't well conditioned. We know. Lots of us are the opposite of that. I'm asking our gymnast/ex-gymnast friends on Fierceboard, why the hate from so many gymnastics people?

Perhaps I'm being too sensitive but I really don't get it.

 

[Fierce_Elite]

So I have noticed that in the gymnastics community there seems to be a very strong cheer bashing tradition. Obviously it's not ALL gymnasts, but I feel like so many people in the gym community have take any and every opportunity to insult and stereotype cheerleaders (all the while getting offended when ignorant people insult gymnastics and stereotype it as easy and girly). I understand that the tumbling on a lot of cheer teams is bad, and that lots of coaches aren't properly trained, and lots of cheerleaders aren't well conditioned. We know. Lots of us are the opposite of that. I'm asking our gymnast/ex-gymnast friends on Fierceboard, why the hate from so many gymnastics people?

Perhaps I'm being too sensitive but I really don't get it.

I don't really think it's about cheerleading all together. I think the issue comes into play when people say that gymnastics and cheerleading are the same things. They're clearly are not. Cheerleading is a mixture of acro and dance. But when you clearly try and compare dance and cheer or gymnastics and Cheer, gymnast get up set because all they do is strictly tumble. May do a few stunt tricks here on the beams and such, but it's still tumbling only. Maybe with a little dance when it comes to floor routines.


So to me, I think it lies more with comparing one another, then actual hate.

 

[Cheermom1969]

So I have noticed that in the gymnastics community there seems to be a very strong cheer bashing tradition. Obviously it's not ALL gymnasts, but I feel like so many people in the gym community have take any and every opportunity to insult and stereotype cheerleaders (all the while getting offended when ignorant people insult gymnastics and stereotype it as easy and girly). I understand that the tumbling on a lot of cheer teams is bad, and that lots of coaches aren't properly trained, and lots of cheerleaders aren't well conditioned. We know. Lots of us are the opposite of that. I'm asking our gymnast/ex-gymnast friends on Fierceboard, why the hate from so many gymnastics people?

Perhaps I'm being too sensitive but I really don't get it.

Is there a thread I've missed? (no, seriously, I'm not in ALL the threads - lol!)

My question is why gymnasts would be on the board, since they would think cheerleading isn't their thing.

 

[Official OWECheer]

Is there a thread I've missed? (no, seriously, I'm not in ALL the threads - lol!)

My question is why gymnasts would be on the board, since they would think cheerleading isn't their thing.

I mean on other forums, in social media, and in real life. Ask any girl who does cheer and gymnastics if she is afraid to tell her gym friends that she cheers, and you will most likely get an affirmative response.

 

[Cheermom1969]

I mean on other forums, in social media, and in real life. Ask any girl who does cheer and gymnastics if she is afraid to tell her gym friends that she cheers, and you will most likely get an affirmative response.

I will say that I've never stepped foot in a gymnastics gym but I think gymnasts in general have a reputation for being elitists. I'm not saying by any means that all of them are but that is the general "picture" you get of a gymnasts a lot of times. So I guess it wouldn't surprise me that they think cheerleaders are silly and less than them - again, only some of them. (can you tell I'm trying not to get jumped on for saying EVERY ONE of them) lol

 

[123jump4!]

I heard a gymnastics mom say about a cheerleader who was doing a tumbling private: "she's good but you can see she's not a gymnast obviously, she doesn't have the FORM". I think that means that certain way gymnasts move and hold themselves. That would look a bit ridiculous in cheer I think?

 

[Official OWECheer]

I heard a gymnastics mom say about a cheerleader who was doing a tumbling private: "she's good but you can see she's not a gymnast obviously, she doesn't have the FORM". I think that means that certain way gymnasts move and hold themselves. That would look a bit ridiculous in cheer I think?

Gym is more about being fluid, controlled and graceful, whereas cheer is about being clean, sharp and tight. I can totally understand the fact that gymnasts and gym coaches resent the fact that lots of cheer people have bad tumbling technique (I too abhor bad technique). What I'm talking about are the constant jabs, the use of stereotypes to insult cheerleaders, etc. Again, it's not all gymnasts (@Cheermom1969 ) but it is still a prevalent thing in gym. Yes, I know gymnastics is extremely brutal, but why do so many gymnasts feel the need to talk badly about cheerleaders? I notice it's not just some younger gymnasts, it's some of the older ones as well.

 

[123jump4!]

Gym is more about being fluid, controlled and graceful, whereas cheer is about being clean, sharp and tight.

Well explained! I knew there was a difference but I couldn't put it into words.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

gymnast get up set because all they do is strictly tumble. May do a few stunt tricks here on the beams and such, but it's still tumbling only. Maybe with a little dance when it comes to floor routines.

Add gymnasts to the list of people I think you've never met. All they do is "tumble, with a few stunt tricks here on the beams and such" ? Girl, bye. You sound like those people who say all cheerleaders do is "shake pom poms and clap their hands."

I'm going to make you your own FBA. Most likely to be rude, while complaining about people being rude.

 

[Official OWECheer]

I don't really think it's about cheerleading all together. I think the issue comes into play when people say that gymnastics and cheerleading are the same things. They're clearly are not. Cheerleading is a mixture of acro and dance. But when you clearly try and compare dance and cheer or gymnastics and Cheer, gymnast get up set because all they do is strictly tumble. May do a few stunt tricks here on the beams and such, but it's still tumbling only. Maybe with a little dance when it comes to floor routines.


So to me, I think it lies more with comparing one another, then actual hate.

I shimmied for the end of your comment, but I should point out that gym is NOT strictly tumbling. That's the biggest misconception about gym. Yes, tumbling is a huge part of it, but not all of it.

And I have to agree with @Just-a-Mom , what gymnasts do on raised apparatuses is much, MUCH more than a few stunt tricks. Not trying to insult or attack you, just saying that your comment sounded belittling.

 

[TealShades]

Add gymnasts to the list of people I think you've never met. All they do is "tumble, with a few stunt tricks here on the beams and such" ? Girl, bye. You sound like those people who say all cheerleaders do is "shake pom poms and clap their hands."

I'm going to make you your own FBA. Most likely to be rude, while complaining about people being rude.

omg I came to this same conclusion while reading her responses to people.

 

[quitthedrama]

I'm going to make you your own FBA. Most likely to be rude, while complaining about people being rude.

I think I just peed a little

 

[tumbleyoda]

There are lots of reasons for the hate, although I wish there wasn't. The mindset they had when I coached and judged gymnastics was that cheerleaders were gymnasts that couldn't cut it being gymnasts. That if they had just stuck it out they could of gotten over their dislike of beam, mental block of a vault or not able to get a kip on bars. It was never that they wanted to do something different, it was that they quit to do something different. Then when they look at what they have to do versus what many cheerleaders have to do and to both be called the same thing, I see where some of their irritation comes from.

With many gymnasts, perfection before progression is not a buzz word, catch phrase or something you tell the parents and other coaches but don't practice. It is supreme law. If you break it, you just may get kicked out of the gym and potentially blacklisted from going to other gyms. It is not unheard of to work on the parts of a back handspring for a year or two before actually attempting it without a spot on the floor. In most cheer gyms the parents would of pulled their hair out, weaved it back in and went to a new gym if Suzie wasn't doing it on the floor in 3 months tops.

In gymnastics you are out there all by yourself. Everyone sees you. Where in cheer you can be creatively hid, which makes many parents not understand why Suzie just can't try her new skill out anyway. After all they are not paying all this money for her not to compete it. In gymnastics you can't bribe, berate or threaten a coach with leaving to put that BHS in a routine so Suzie's grandmom who can only come to one competition in Suzie's career can see her grandbaby throw a BHS to her cranium.

Looking at the BHS in cheer we don't expect a Level 2 BHS to look like a Level 3 BHS, Level 4 BHS or Level 5 BHS. So we have mental allowances for age and level. If a BHS looks too good in Level 2 we start screaming that athlete or that team sandbagged and should be in a higher level. In gymnastics they train every BHS to look like it is an elite BHS, period. After all it that is what it should look like, make it look like that now, not later.

In cheer we take kids that are good at tumbling and have them teach tumbling classes, open gym to work off tuition and scholarships to our World's team. In gymnastics that usually never ever happens and if you are not properly certified and credentialed you might not even get on the floor, except in a smaller, newer program. ***The using of athletes and calling them coaches to pay off a bill you created is a pet peeve of mine***

In gymnastics a handstand in California is the same in Maine. A back handspring in Florida is the same in Washington. The training methodologies, expectations, and outcomes don't change much, with the exception if the gym follows a particular training regimen developed in other countries. In cheer a janky BHS in one gym that is not put in a routine is thrown into the routine immediately in the gym across the street. Made Level 2 team and you want to be on Level 4? You don't have to work harder just change gyms! After all it was the gyms fault that did not recognize that Suzie would work way harder if she was put on a team where she had to have a skill, instead of a team where she could actually perform the skills she currently has.

The skills are judged exactly the same no matter the competition. The value or influence or subjectivity of the skill never changes - only the execution. Where in cheer it changes from week to week depending on where you are competing, who is judging, whether it is a stage or on the floor, the lighting and if they were out of dipping dots before your team performed.

The higher you go in gymnastics the more hours you train - in some cases upward of 25 hours a week just in training. In cheer we want to be on the highest level teams and spend the least amount of hours possible in the gym. Conditioning is mandatory - every practice no exception. Many gymnasts condition for 30 min to an hour BEFORE they even start their practice, where in cheer it is optional if we can fit it in because we have a new pyramid piece we just have to work on tonight. And some parents complain if you condition more than 5 minutes.

In gymnastics the younger you are, the better and the more opportunities you are given for better training. If you start gymnastics late usually by a certain age, the best you can hope for is some rec training, unless you are just that determined. In cheer you can start at any age - which I love.

Personally I love both, but wish cheer was a little more form based and gymnastics was a little more fun.

 

[FlexyTumblerMom]

My opinion is the reason gymnasts have that attitude is the poor form in cheer tumbling. These are kids that have spent years of their life making their back handspring absolutely perfect w/ ankles and knees glued together, straight legs and arms, perfect timing and arch - etc. Most of them won't be allowed to even think about attempting a full until their 4th or 5th year of a sport to which they devote 20+ hours a week of practice w/hard core conditioning. These girls see a cheer tumbler doing a back handspring that would give their coach a heart-attack, along w/ a janky full that looks downright dangerous, they think "omg!" and want to poke fun. They see it as a form of validation as to why they work so hard to get their form perfect, cause they don't want their full to look like that "twisting ball of death" they just saw.

If cheer doesn't want gymnasts to hate on them, they should start really scoring hard when it comes to form in tumbling, but then that would really slow down a kid's progression through the levels, and there would be a lot less level 4/5 teams. It would probably hurt enrollment in the sport too, cause most kids don't have it in them to drive for the kind of perfection that good tumbling form requires.

I don't think there is any hate when it comes to stunting though - or jumps. Now regarding the dance - lol - cheer would get some dancer hate when it comes to that one, but I guess that's another thread .

 

[Official OWECheer]

There are lots of reasons for the hate, although I wish there wasn't. The mindset they had when I coached and judged gymnastics was that cheerleaders were gymnasts that couldn't cut it being gymnasts. That if they had just stuck it out they could of gotten over their dislike of beam, mental block of a vault or not able to get a kip on bars. It was never that wanted to do something different, it was that they quit to do something different. Then when they look at what they have to do vs what many cheerleaders have to do and to both be called the same thing, I see where some of their irritation comes from.

With many gymnasts, perfection before progression is not a buzz word, catch phrase or something you tell the parents and other coaches but don't practice. It is supreme law. If you break it, you just may get kicked out of the gym and potentially blacklisted from going to other gyms. It is not unheard of to work on the parts of a back handspring for a year or two before actually attempting it without a spot on the floor. In most cheer gyms the parents would of pulled their hair out, weaved it back in and went to a new gym if Suzie wasn't doing it on the floor in 3 months tops.

In gymnastics you are out there all by yourself. Everyone sees you. Where in cheer you can be creatively hid, which makes many parents not understand why Suzie just cant try her new skill out anyway. They are not paying all this money for her not to compete it. In gymnastics you can't bribe, berate or threaten a coach with leaving to put that BHS in a routine so Suzie's grandmom who can only come to one competition in Suzie's career can see her grandbaby throw a BHS to her cranium.

Looking at the BHS in cheer we don't expect a Level 2 BHS to look like a Level 3 BHS, Level 4 BHS or Level 5 BHS. So we have mental allowances for age and level. If a BHS looks too good in Level 2 we start screaming that athklete or that team sandbagged and should be in a higher level. In gymnastics they train every BHS to look like it is an elite BHS, period. After all it that is what it should look like, make it look like that now, not later.

In cheer we take kids that are good at tumbling and have them teach tumbling classes, open gym to work of tuition. In gymnastics that usually never ever happens and if you are not properly certified and credentialed you might not even get on the floor, except in a smaller, newer program. ***pet peeve of mine***

In gymnastics a handstand in California is the same in Maine. A back handspring in Florida is the same in Washington. The training methodologies, expectations, and outcomes don't change much, with the exception if the gym follows a particular training regimen developed in other countries. In cheer a janky BHS in one gym that is not put in a routine is thrown into the routine immediately in the gym across the street. Made Level 2 team and you want to be on Level 4? You don't have to work harder just change gyms! After all it was the gyms fault that did not recognize that Suzie would work way harder if she was put on a team where she had to have a skill, instead of a team where she could actually perform the skills she currently has.

The skills are judged exactly the same no matter the competition. The value or influence or subjectivity of the skill never changes - only the execution. Where in cheer it changes from week to week depending on where you are competing, who is judging, whether it is a stage or on the floor, the lighting and if they were out of dipping dots before your team performed.

The higher you go in gymnastics the more hours you train - in some cases upward of 25 hours a week just in training. In cheer we want to be on the highest level teams and spend the least amount of hours possible in the gym. Conditioning is mandatory - every practice no exception. Many gymnasts condition for 30 min to an hour BEFORE they even start their routines, where in cheer it is optional if we can fit it in because we have a new pyramid piece we just have to work on tonight. Ad some parents complain if you condition more than 5 minutes.

In gymnastics the younger you are, the better and the more opportunities you are given for better training. If you start gymnastics late usually by a certain age, the best you can hope for is some rec training, unless you are just that determined. In cheer you can start at any age - which I love.

Personally I love both, but wish cheer was a little more form based and gymnastics was a little more fun.

Loved your response! The attitude toward rushing skills in cheer reminds me of a kid that gets spoiled (here I go again with a coaching/parenting metaphor but I can't help it). If someone (or in the case of cheer, enough people) succumb to a kid or parent's impatience, it is harder for technique-focused gyms and coaches to be stern. You (as a babysitter or relative) can tell a kid not to eat huge amounts of candy, for example, but if their parents give them huge amounts of it, it's much harder stopping them. What good does it do for a tumbling coach to be firm and emphasize progression if 10 other coaches will help the kid "get" the skill in a much shorter time than you would (and with much worse technique)? Not saying that coaches should stop caring about teaching proper tumbling, it's just that it's hard to get parents and kids to see how important it is.