All-Star Yo, Gymtyme Is Not Playing This Year.

[Nothanks]

If they are to take the same stunt to Cheersport and the judge there calls it illegal by their interpretation of the rule, will their calling be overruled by Les's ruling of it being legal? I am beginning to wonder if they will somehow change the stunt anyway just because it has caused this much of a frenzy over it.

I wondered that myself...because not only would that affect cheersport, but EVERY competition they go to this season. Every legality judge would have their hands tied to say it's legal, even if they agree with the majority of us posting about the prone position.

 

[King]

I wondered that myself...because not only would that affect cheersport, but EVERY competition they go to this season. Every legality judge would have their hands tied to say it's legal, even if they agree with the majority of us posting about the prone position.

What was or was not ruled legal at another competition does not guarantee it legal the entire year (or illegal). A judge could decide to rule it illegal. Hence why previous competitions may not call something BUT it may be called later.

 

[King]

Now what I would love is a type of system (and I already have it planned out and how to do it in my head) of submitting a video of a skill in possible question, getting a ruling, and having that 'case' number. Any skill called into question that was ruled legal at a competition could be brought up by case number.

This can be done by a support ticket system (we use it for my day job).

 

[ztaprincess]

What was or was not ruled legal at another competition does not guarantee it legal the entire year (or illegal). A judge could decide to rule it illegal. Hence why previous competitions may not call something BUT it may be called later.

So basically Les's ruling on the stunt means nothing if a Cheersport judge rules it illegal? If that ends up happening I see it causing an even bigger uproar then the current issue at hand.

 

[King]

So basically Les's ruling on the stunt means nothing if a Cheersport judge rules it illegal? If that ends up happening I see it causing an even bigger uproar then the current issue at hand.

There is no precedent currently in cheer for once a skill is legal, its legal.

 

[Nothanks]

i really REALLY don't like any of that. because it just makes it opinion based and leads to way too many discrepancies like this, which like everyone said about rule bending for teams, makes our sport less credible and the rules less reliable.

 

[ztaprincess]

i really REALLY don't like any of that. because it just makes it opinion based and leads to way too many discrepancies like this, which like everyone said about rule bending for teams, makes our sport less credible and the rules less reliable.

I agree. They say if you think something is illegal to send a video to Les and he will let you know. Ok say you do that and he says it is legal so you go about the season doing it and then that one competition decides that it is illegal. If the big guy says it is ok then how can you flip flop the stance of the stunt every other competition. That will just cause even more drama and pointing of fingers.

 

[King]

I think GT could call Les and have it declared legal at that point. But as far as I know (and I know a couple judges) there hasnt be a nationwide statement. Heck, while it has be declared legal do we even know exactly why? We have seen two different reasons. The leg was behind not making it flat and the girl was not at a flat angle. Does the combo of those two make it legal or can a girl come down with her body slightly piked?

 

[King]

Legal mean AFTER it was called illegal by cheersport or whoever.

 

[gymTyme4ever]

I didn't write the rules I just read them and find ways to stand out I didn't come up with the definition. And for everyone saying bids were Misgiven if in fact it was illegal it would have been changed and gt still would have done great job. Much respect to all

 

[Brenner]

I think there are exceptions rather the stunt was illegal or not they were not made aware of it! I think an example of situations where rules were ignored is for exmaple I still till this day do not know how top gun got away with wearing those show covers over their shoes! I remember whenever f5 were allowed to wear there gloves becuase they was sewn to the uniform! I think situations like this are clearly illegal and ignored in situations like this.

I think because they were spats. Just went over the top of their shoe so they still have a full sole of the shoe in contact with the cheer floor.

 

[gymTyme4ever]

Prone:
–adjective
1. having a natural inclination or tendency to something; disposed; liable: to be prone to anger.
2. having the front or ventral part downward; lying face downward.
3. lying flat; prostrate.
The way their stunt is caught definitely fits both of those. I fail to see how it's legal. Clearly the meaning of the word is being interpreted the wrong way in this situation. It's too bad cause it's a really cool stunt but I really think it's illegal.

Unfortunately that's not the way it reads in the rulebook that I didn't write

 

[Audrey]

Unfortunately that's not the way it reads in the rulebook that I didn't write

That's the problem though. Prone isn't a cheerleading term so why it supposedly has a different meaning in cheer doesn't make sense. If you're not going to use it in the context it is used in the English language, don't use it at all.
And one doesn't have to write a rulebook to be able to read it.
Please don't take my posts as me bashing GymTyme because I'm not at all. They're a very talented program that just made a mistake. It's the way this situation has been handled that's bothering me.

 

[MissBee]

I think we all need to take a breath and realize that no one here is bashing Gym Tyme, in any way. Everyone here has commented on how much they respect GT, and what an innovative skill/routine they have. I fully believe that even without the skill in question, they would have earned the paid bid at WSF.
What everyone is discussing here, is how this rule (and many others) can be interpreted in many different ways. What one person would consider illegal based on the rule as it is written, another may see as legal. Whenever someone does something innovative, there will always be a legality question. The issue at hand in this situation is HOW that decision was rendered. At first it was legal, then it was illegal, finally it was ruled legal. However, as pointed out above, at the next competition GT goes to-they are at the mercy of that judging panel again....which will probably involve another call to Les.
To be taken seriously, cheer needs to have rules that are more clearly stated, and a definite process for having a specific skill deemed legal. I adore Kingston's plan for submitting skills videos for review and then having them issued a "ticket" that they can present at competitions to the judging panel before they take the floor, so that everyone is aware that the skill was ruled legal for competition at that specific level.
Also, the idea that the rationale for why a skill is illegal is a fabulous idea! This way coaches, choreographers, athletes and parents understand WHY a skill is illegal. ie: knee drops when done repeatedly can cause injury to your ligaments and meniscus, prone landings put you at higher risk for rib and internal organ injuries. When we are educated, there are less likely to be major injuries and our sport becomes safer and more well respected.

 

[pinksparklybow]

I was under the impression (possibly incorrectly) that any usasf sanctioned event would fall under Les' legality rulings. yes or no? that being said, not all illegal happenings are caught OR are even known to be illegal in some instances. in the same manner that not all fouls/penalties are caught in any other sport.