All-Star 2012 Worlds

[cheerinfo]

The data I am basing my opinion off of is the current lack of large senior all girl teams. We have seen a decline for the past few years, and with the "medium" added, that will happen at an even faster rate. I don't need any further data to know that further dividing large sr 5 all girl is just a bad plan for the sport. I don't care if CheerSport loses a small fraction of a percent of what they make on that huge event. I care about competition, I care about the future of the sport and it thriving. What I don't care about is 2-4 teams battling in out in a division all alone. Those teams get to do that at smaller nationals already. I don't need to see 4 teams (at most) at Worlds, and then 2 moving on to finals. To me, that is just not a step forward for the sport. And I will not digress and speculate on your NASCAR analogy because I know nothing about NASCAR or its rules and procedures HAHA! But I do NOT think by having 2 youth 5 divisions and 3 all girl divisions is good for the overall good of the sport. Again, JMO, and my opinion matters little since the rules are the way the are for at least this season coming up. I just think it was a step backwards, even if it will lead to the eventual LARGE step forward (hopefully the following season).

 

[StarshipTrooper]

The data I am basing my opinion off of is the current lack of large senior all girl teams. We have seen a decline for the past few years, and with the "medium" added, that will happen at an even faster rate. I don't need any further data to know that further dividing large sr 5 all girl is just a bad plan for the sport.

Well, to really understand I guess I would have to know your situation and motivation. Do you have a team or want a team in the division so to compete? Why do you care?

 

[StarshipTrooper]

@StarshipTrooper I would just like a discussion where your answer is not reductio ad absurdum

OK, I just don't have time right now. But I disagree with you charactierization of the my basic theory. I say go for letting the gyms, coaches and athletes defining the sport as much as possible and limit rules to what is necessary for safety and what is best for the athletes.

 

[cheerinfo]

Well, to really understand I guess I would have to know your situation and motivation. Do you have a team or want a team in the division so to compete? Why do you care?

I care because I think it is the best move for the sport. I do not own a gym or program anymore, nor do I even coach anymore. But I love this sport and I would like to see it grow and make POSITIVE steps forward. To me, this was a setback for this season. Especially when I think for 2012-2013, large will be reduced and youth 5 will just be restricted. This is a wasted year to me in the progression of those two divisions. Less teams in large all girl and less teams in youth 5 because of the added splits. That is my motivation though. To have this sport improved, not be something to be further mocked because we can't get it together.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

I care because I think it is the best move for the sport. I do not own a gym or program anymore, nor do I even coach anymore. But I love this sport and I would like to see it grow and make POSITIVE steps forward. To me, this was a setback for this season. Especially when I think for 2012-2013, large will be reduced and youth 5 will just be restricted. This is a wasted year to me in the progression of those two divisions. Less teams in large all girl and less teams in youth 5 because of the added splits. That is my motivation though. To have this sport improved, not be something to be further mocked because we can't get it together.

Thanks for the info. info. Seems reasonable to me. And I think you and I may be on the same page, theoretically.

 

[King]

@StarshipTrooper @cheerinfo @ACEDAD (tagged acedad because I am referencing him)

For this sport to grow to its full potential we cannot be so insular to not care what other people think of it. If less people think of this sport (and unlike acedad I do care that it is thought of as a sport) it is less likely to be taken seriously. The less people that take it seriously, the less people involved. The less people involved the weaker cheerleading gets (and less teams that compete). Why wouldnt we want allstar to be the most popular sport in the US? Why wouldnt we do all the necesary things to make that happen? Where we are now should be a stepping stone to where we will be in 20 years, not the pinnacle of cheerleading. Why we try and hinder that growth to protect niches we have now I just dont get.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

@StarshipTrooper @cheerinfo @ACEDAD (tagged acedad because I am referencing him)

For this sport to grow to its full potential we cannot be so insular to not care what other people think of it. If less people think of this sport (and unlike acedad I do care that it is thought of as a sport) it is less likely to be taken seriously. The less people that take it seriously, the less people involved. The less people involved the weaker cheerleading gets (and less teams that compete). Why wouldnt we want allstar to be the most popular sport in the US? Why wouldnt we do all the necesary things to make that happen? Where we are now should be a stepping stone to where we will be in 20 years, not the pinnacle of cheerleading. Why we try and hinder that growth to protect niches we have now I just dont get.

Varsity does not want it declared a sport because they know what will happen when local, state and national associations start "administration" of the sport. I think I understand why. Although I understand this is your mission statement, you might not like what happens when you get your wish..

 

[King]

Varsity does not want it declared a sport because they know what will happen when local, state and national associations start "administration" of the sport. I think I understand why. Although I understand this is your mission statement, you might not like what happens when you get your wish..

That is the constant warning everyone gives about it. High school and college can stay non sports. High school has 17,000 variations... won't even touch that. Competitive college cheer is dying. A form will be around, albeit much simpler (once the rules crack down again) and less teams involved. What we do, allstar cheer, the one that is a sport, needs to be a sport. The thing is no one can tell me why allstar shouldnt be a sport. I have heard why school shouldn't.

 

[socratesofcheer]

I'm not angry. Do you have any data that suggests your assumptions are correct concerning these changes? I would say that CheerSport has proven that if you increase options in teams, levels, numbers and divisions that you will get MORE TEAMS paying entry fees. I don't think anyone will argue that CheerSport is the best Level 5 competion, which may be the more important question for these teams specifically. You may be right, I think if everyone involved feels like it is the best thing to do, it's ok to try and see what happens. However, sometimes when things are not working out, it is very hard to adjust after the changes. Back to the NASCAR, which I really am not a fan of but clearly is a endeavor (not a sport to me) that has micromanaged almost every aspect of the sport. Jimmy Johnson probably likes the rules like they are right now winning 5 in a row. I suspect so do the gyms thriving under the present rules in cheer. But NASCAR has a lot of empty seats and I think to some extent because of the dedication to leveling the playing field and limiting choices. Proceed with, but do so with caution. I'm clearly in a minority on this subject, but sometimes opposing voices can be beneficial.

I would most definitely argue that cheersport is NOT the best level 5 competition. Cheersport doesn't come close to NCA as far as level 5 competition.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

That is the constant warning everyone gives about it. High school and college can stay non sports. High school has 17,000 variations... won't even touch that. Competitive college cheer is dying. A form will be around, albeit much simpler (once the rules crack down again) and less teams involved. What we do, allstar cheer, the one that is a sport, needs to be a sport. The thing is no one can tell me why allstar shouldnt be a sport. I have heard why school shouldn't.

Just an example of micromanagement with rules and regulations and how Varsity sees it as a detriment. Nothing about you. College cheer will only explode if there are scholarships. Limiting athlete numbers, multiple divisions, levels, one set of rules for youth 5, another set for youth 5 on roids, all this kind of stuff may seem progressive and encouraging growth and improvement, but you could be wrong. My experience is that freedom of choice, market direction and making rules and regulations less intrusive gives rise to growth, innovation and success. However, I freely admit that with these actions, my pov is moot and only agitates those who see it differntly. As you can see, I sort of like that, but with a year to go, I won't be around to say "I told you so".

 

[nateairnj]

I would Go CRAZY if Stingrays went Medium next year and started owning Small Senior and Medium Senior!!

 

[ACEDAD]

If less people think of this sport (and unlike acedad I do care that it is thought of as a sport) it is less likely to be taken seriously. The less people that take it seriously, the less people involved. The less people involved the weaker cheerleading gets (and less teams that compete). Why wouldnt we want allstar to be the most popular sport in the US? Why wouldnt we do all the necesary things to make that happen? Where we are now should be a stepping stone to where we will be in 20 years, not the pinnacle of cheerleading. Why we try and hinder that growth to protect niches we have now I just dont get.

Saying that I don't care isn't a fair characterization of my opinion. What I have said repeatedly is that I fear the unintended consequences of the "sport" declaration.

I've always encouraged growth. Especially the kind that involves many more paying spectators.

 

[King]

Saying that I don't care isn't a fair characterization of my opinion. What I have said repeatedly is that I fear the unintended consequences of the "sport" declaration.

I've always encouraged growth. Especially the kind that involves many more paying spectators.

Sports have a lot more fans. Fans spend a lot more money. Fans put their kids into sports. Besides technicalities talking to some of our coaches and parents there is no real difference between us and travel baseball. Well, that and lack of recognition.

 

[1togo]

I'll be sad with Large Senior is gone, it's the only reason I follow All-Stars. I love all the hoopla regarding Shooting Stars, Senior Elite & F5! To me, they are the best and most interesting teams in this sport.

 

[King]

I'll be sad with Large Senior is gone, it's the only reason I follow All-Stars. I love all the hoopla regarding Shooting Stars, Senior Elite & F5! To me, they are the best and most interesting teams in this sport.

Good news, if large senior is gone they would just go medium and the hoopla would all still be there.