High School Fulls During Basketball Season?

[cheerforeverever]

I Honestly I think high schoolers should compete on spring floors too because if were talking about safety, I would think that was safer than a piece of mat thrown on a cafeteria floor.

There has been a lot of discussion on this over the years, but it always comes down to the argument that not all schools have access to spring floors for practice, so it would be an unfair advantage to privileged/larger schools who are able to pay for allstar facilities.

Shoot, in college we were just thrilled to get a couple new flexi-roll flat mats compared to the nasty, ancient flat mats we had, and we had to fight tooth and nail for administration to okay that purchase......

 

[MissBee]

Spring floors will never fly in HS. Reasons:
1. too expensive
2. need a dedicated space to be set up full time-the set up and tear down is too time consuming, even just for a tumble strip.
3. despite the rubber caps on the springs, they are damaging to a basketball court surface, unless you put down a protective tarp (which then adds to the expense and set up/break down time).

 

[0riginal]

I can definitely see where people are coming from (why fulls should be legal), but there are rules for a reason.
And doesn't that just give people more clout to say we're not an organized sport? I'm not at all saying we should have cheer refs at every game (can you imagine?!), but coaches of all other sports are punished if they don't follow rules so I don't see why ours should be exceptions. Every game I'm expected to have my hair fully 'up', jewelry out, and follow safety rules and it doesn't make our team look any worse.

I dunno, maybe I'm just a stickler for the rules because my coach raised us that way haha.

 

[ttumble0819]

I too would love to see the stats on injuries on mat vs non matted surfaces and see if the issue is performance surface or non educated coaching (which I think is more of the issue). Why not address the real issue and get education for coaches.

Also to reply to just doing simple easy stuff that gets the crowds amazed easier said then done. We have a huge powder puff cheer program - it just doesn't sell that they do things far more advanced
Then us on the bball. Court but we can't bc of safety rules - they practice 4 weeks we practice 8 months - kids are smart it doesn't sell it just looks like we stink.

I wish high school cheer
Followed more like all stars with levels and progression instead of random 'that is dangerous' theories that are inconsistent with skills we are allowed to perform.

 

[GreatWhite92]

That's like my school, they were smart they knew what fulls were...and to them they thought that was the best thing in the world.

 

[ztaprincess]

I had no idea it was illegal for college. I knew doubles were. But the then again when your falling from a 2 & 1/2 high pyramid is the grass really going to soften the blow anymore than a basketball court? Not making a statement more of asking a general question?

The grass would soften it a bit but not a huge amount. The reason those things are illegal in college cheer is because of the injuries that have happened on a basketball court while the cameras are rolling on TV. They are not allowed to do any kind of baskets, no twisting tumbling, no rewinds, and no level 6 pryamids. I am also about 90% positive full ups are also illegal. I agree with the rules though because if you watch NCA college nationals and pay attention to all the teams that look like hot messes and then imagine what they would look like on a basketball court it is scary. Not every team can perform skills as flawlessly as Louisville or HPU.

 

[AndyT_T]

It is illegal. I do it anyway.
Dont currrrr

 

[ztaprincess]

It is illegal. I do it anyway.
Dont currrrr

I am glad that you don't care that your school/coach could be in legal trouble if you get injured.

The fact that people don't follow the rules is not helping cheer AT ALL. It is making things worse because when accidents happen the blame is put on cheerleading being too dangerous. If schools like SFA, HPU, Louisville, and UK can go through basketball season without throwing the difficult tumbling passes and stunts then it shouldn't be that hard for high school cheerleaders to do the same. It is a shame that people will ignore rules on purpose because they "don't curr", to be honest if I were your coach you wouldn't be on my team anymore because I wouldn't put my job as risk.

 

[AndyT_T]

I am glad that you don't care that your school/coach could be in legal trouble if you get injured.

The fact that people don't follow the rules is not helping cheer AT ALL. It is making things worse because when accidents happen the blame is put on cheerleading being too dangerous. If schools like SFA, HPU, Louisville, and UK can go through basketball season without throwing the difficult tumbling passes and stunts then it shouldn't be that hard for high school cheerleaders to do the same. It is a shame that people will ignore rules on purpose because they "don't curr", to be honest if I were your coach you wouldn't be on my team anymore because I wouldn't put my job as risk.

Oh dear, calm down hunny.
Though I could go on for days and days about what is hindering the progress of cheer, and the safety therin, Im not going to. All Im gonna say is that, my full, though not perfect, is much safer than most of what highschoolers in my area are doing. Idk about the rest of the country, but where Im from (The Midwest) most teams havent even seen a full. Like ever.
State sophomore year, a girl broke her arm in 3 places doing a chair. A CHAIR.
My full is leaps and bounds above the sketchy sketch tucks and extended libs other teams do (two of the HS we compete against can only lib with two elevator braces). Me doing a full and touching with my ariel awareness is safer than the tucks that girls are falling out of at every game.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

H. Specific Basketball/Indoor Court Restrictions​

The following skills are prohibited at basketball and other athletic contests conducted on courts, except where the area is free of obstructions and non-cheer personnel, and all skills are performed on a matted surface. ​

1. Basket tosses, elevator/sponge tosses and other similar multi-based tosses are prohibited.​

2. Partner stunts in which the base uses only one arm to support the top person are prohibited.​

3. Released twists into or from stunts or pyramids are prohibited.​

4. Inversions in partner stunts and pyramids are prohibited. The exception to this rule is the following: ​

a. Inversions that begin on the ground and go to an upright position where the top person is in constant contact with a base or spotter are allowed.​

5. Twisting tumbling skills (Arabians, full twisting layouts, etc.) are prohibited. The exception to this rule is the following: ​

a. Cartwheels, roundoffs and aerial cartwheels are allowed.​

Now that I placed this here I am going to add my few dollars b/c I have more then a few cents.

1: The crowd doesn't really know the difference between a handspring, a tuck, a layout, a full… most are like, that flip thing that the cheerleaders did was kinda cool. BUT they know when you fall and sometimes wait for it. There are plenty of things you can do that are sufficient for basketball to stay safe.

2: Rules are in place to protect the coaches, the athletes, the school, etc. IF you get injured doing a legal skill, you are covered by insurance policies in school and also if you are AACCA certified, they cover you too. NFHS and AACCA has these rules and insurance policies for your safety and your school and coaches.

3: Wood Court/Track/Hardfloor/Grass... the difference is physics, the impact. Opinion is opinion. BUT in the case of a wood floor… go ahead, throw your full that isn't quite up to par... slip on some of that basketball sweat (gross)... (b/c falling just can’t happen to you) now you told your coach, Oh don't worry I am only doing a layout and you fall, land on your head and are rushed to the ER.... YOU ARE HURT who knows the extent, IT'S ALL OVER THE NEWS NATIONALLY, YOUR COACH IS NOW IN LEGAL TROUBLE, YOUR SCHOOL IS… and your parents are mad whether at you or take it to a farther extent and take to legal, all b/c YOU were told no and just didn't care and didn't want to follow the rules. Great, ruin it for everyone else. Thanks.

4: Most HS coaches are not as qualified, all they have is this book of NFHS rules and if you are lucky enough to go to camp, maybe they are a little more educated and get AACCA certified. Some high schools, girls do this b/c they love to cheer for their school, it's fun for them. A 16 year old should not be dictating what she is doing and complaining the rules aren't fair.. life, it is not always fair, sorry!

5: Parents do sue... there are nasty people out there that even if something is completely legal, if their precious princess gets hurt they will do ANYTHING to make a buck out of it and those of you who don't think it happens, you would be surprised. In college, a teammate simply sprained her ankle b/c her mom insisted someone who is clearly a base should be flying b/c she did in HS, the coach listened to mom, she sprained an ankle and years later I was STILL getting calls from a lawyer all over an ankle sprain that didn’t even require surgery!

6: Your “safer” skill then what some people are doing is just poor coaching or lack of it. HOWEVER if Suzie falls during a tuck it’s not in rules that say you can’t tuck… you may not be able to tuck soon b/c of that if it seems to be a trend but it’s not ILLEGAL!

In any event, it’s not hard, just follow the rules. It's like driving on the opposite side of the road just because you feel like it. Is it a good idea, probably not? A lot of you bring up very good points and understand the severity and that is awesome you are so well educated on the toipc, but threads like this get my blood boiling!

 

[SparkleSpankies]

[/quote]
4: Most HS coaches are not as qualified, all they have is this book of NFHS rules and if you are lucky enough to go to camp, maybe they are a little more educated and get AACCA certified. [/quote]

This was simply to say that some coaches aren't even aware of AACCA or NFHS and MAYBE they can get their teams to camp and be educated that this exists. Not going just to camp means you are certified! This is all safety awareness...

 

[GreatWhite92]

The only thing I disagree with is the first. High schoolers are not dumb. They know when they see something cool. The knew what I did (when it was legal) was a full and when it became illegal they would scream for me to do it because they thought it was cool! I would get chants all the time for my self, the cheerleader, not the basketball player which they should be chanting for but me to do my full all the time.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

Again, MOST! Not all..

 

[tntdynomite]

The only thing I disagree with is the first. High schoolers are not dumb. They know when they see something cool. The knew what I did (when it was legal) was a full and when it became illegal they would scream for me to do it because they thought it was cool! I would get chants all the time for my self, the cheerleader, not the basketball player which they should be chanting for but me to do my full all the time.

In the end it doesn't matter what they want. You should follow the rules so your coach and school don't get in trouble in the unlikely event that you get injured.

 

[GreatWhite92]

I didn't say you should do it. When I started high school it was legal, I was just commenting that high schoolers can tell a difference between a backhandspring and a tuck. And especially a full so saying that they think it's all the same thing is just ignorant. However when it became illegal, it should have graduated out the high schoolers who knew the difference since no one should have been throwing them anymore..