All-Star Instead Of Reducing Tumbling How About Huge Tumble Bust Deductions

[Mclovin]

And that will be more heart breaking to a kid then telling them they can't do a double punch double any more.

My child would disagree...

 

[shadow]

I'm saying you can't compare gymnastics to cheerleading equally.

Gymnastics you are deducted for bent feet, bent arms, slightly arched body in a layout. Every movement you make that is not exactly correct is .1
You can't compare them equally but you would never even come close to winning in gymnastics with a flying curled up layout full inches that land 3/4 of the way around. But you see teams win at competitions with them in cheer.

 

[shadow]

Gymnastics you are deducted for bent feet, bent arms, slightly arched body in a layout. Every movement you make that is not exactly correct is .1
You can't compare them equally but you would never even come close to winning in gymnastics with a flying curled up layout full inches that land 3/4 of the way around. But you see teams win at competitions with them in cheer.

*inches off the floor

 

[Mamarazzi]

Agreed. I would love to see perfection before progression. Most parents unfortunately don't agree, but if you penalize the tumbling, then parents would get on board because no parent would want their "Susie" to mess up the whole team.

It's not just the parents - Coaches and gym owners want their kids to have the highest-level tumbling skills possible, which enables the Susie's Moms. Chuck it and **** it, if Susie gets her full, there she is on level 5. Coach/owner needs bases on his level 5, and he needs majority tumbling, so there goes the janky skill.

 

[ohkcheery]

My child would disagree...

I don't know about more heart-breaking, but I can see the psychological impact it could have on a child. Mentally screwy, especially when you think about how mean kids can be. It'd be terrifying to know you can't screw up even if you do it 100x/100x in practice? No one is perfect. No routine is perfect. It never will be when you've got so many subjective elements in a routine.

 

[5-6-7-8]

I cut your post down a bit for size issues- but even in other sports, flukes still get punished. My brother can spike like it's his job, but when his hand misses and he nets it, it's still a penalty. We've seen gymnasts lose world/olympic titles on easy turns or on a missed grip that is so easy a level 4 could do it..but even still, you don't see SUPER serious risks on things that could cost them a loss. They're cautious about putting enough in to win/demonstrate their awesome without killing themselves or going overboard. That's where we need to be..

I agree that flukes should still be punished. Just not as harshly as something that shouldn't have been attempted in the first place.

 

[Philly Pherocious]

Gymnastics you are deducted for bent feet, bent arms, slightly arched body in a layout. Every movement you make that is not exactly correct is .1
You can't compare them equally but you would never even come close to winning in gymnastics with a flying curled up layout full inches that land 3/4 of the way around. But you see teams win at competitions with them in cheer.

You just contradicted yourself by comparing gymnastics to cheerleading.

 

[Mclovin]

I don't know about more heart-breaking, but I can see the psychological impact it could have on a child. Mentally screwy, especially when you think about how mean kids can be. It'd be terrifying to know you can't screw up even if you do it 100x/100x in practice? No one is perfect. No routine is perfect. It never will be when you've got so many subjective elements in a routine.

Our society needs to get over the idea that we have to be so gentle to a kid's emotional state of mind. Competitive sports is just that, competitive. Yes, probably every kid on a team is going to be the reason a team lost at some point. Whether it be due to busting a skill or falling out of a stunt or whatever. Get over it. It's gonna happen. Stop trying to be so delicate with it. Toughen up. Our entire country is going to pot because we're so scared to offend people! Blah!

 

[5-6-7-8]

It's not just the parents - Coaches and gym owners want their kids to have the highest-level tumbling skills possible, which enables the Susie's Moms. Chuck it and **** it, if Susie gets her full, there she is on level 5. Coach/owner needs bases on his level 5, and he needs majority tumbling, so there goes the janky skill.

True, it is definitely on the coaches / owners as well. And I agree that it is up to them at the end of the day to field a strong team. But I am also sympathetic to the coaches / owners who may not feel they can stand up to crazy Susie's mom. (Not that I agree a coach / owner should bow to parent pressure, but I understand it happens.)

 

[yojaehs]

Let us say no one took out any of the allowed tumbling. But if you bust there are huge deductions. Let us say 5pts at worlds for every tumbling bust, 3 points for a touch down.

Feel free to throw all the skills you want, but you will move down the ranks quickly if you arent performing skills you have mastered.

This also could be applied everywhere at every level. Would not be breaking the rules cycle. And would have the same affect without pissing people off.

I want to say that I LOVE LOVE LOVE this idea, is everyone going to agree, NO, will the people that know what they are doing agree, YES! Flukes happen, I've lost a globe bc of a fluke devastating to an entire team, YES, but I saw my team rally around that kid and cry with her, not blame her, I saw that kid use it as motivation to never let it happen again, she is now wearing a ring that says WORLD CHAMPION. I still see this as a bandaid but I've said that over 1 million times and I keep getting shimmy's but no one wants to FIX the problem. Coaches credentialing needs to be more strict, not just a little bit but times 1000x more strict. Let me ask this, why doesn't credentialing limit skills? As in if credentialing doesn't cover it, it isn't allowed, will it happen NO but what would this do to STUNTING as well? Anything harder than a full up or kick full basket would be eliminated, that shows what kind of a JOKE this credentialing is. I'm up for renewing my credentialing this season but when I took the test, the CORRECT answer to how to teach a double was to "pull harder" so bc I answered "pull harder" I am now SAFETY CERTIFIED TO TEACH A DOUBLE FULL!!! WHAT, are you kidding me!? Explaining how to teach the difference between a full and double should be MUCH more in depth. I still say IF they do this it will change NOTHING AT ALL!!! Fulls and doubles are where a MAJORITY of the injuries occur NOT dub dubs.

 

[Mamarazzi]

True, it is definitely on the coaches / owners as well. And I agree that it is up to them at the end of the day to field a strong team. But I am also sympathetic to the coaches / owners who may not feel they can stand up to crazy Susie's mom. (Not that I agree a coach / owner should bow to parent pressure, but I understand it happens.)

I understand that it happens too, but at what point does the almighty dollar take a back seat to a parent who insists on their child throwing a skill that seriously could potentially paralyze or kill them? I'm getting a little weary of kids and parents behavior being tolerated by coaches/owners because of the "business."

 

[tumbleyoda]

I want to say that I LOVE LOVE LOVE this idea, is everyone going to agree, NO, will the people that know what they are doing agree, YES! Flukes happen, I've lost a globe bc of a fluke devastating to an entire team, YES, but I saw my team rally around that kid and cry with her, not blame her, I saw that kid use it as motivation to never let it happen again, she is now wearing a ring that says WORLD CHAMPION. I still see this as a bandaid but I've said that over 1 million times and I keep getting shimmy's but no one wants to FIX the problem. Coaches credentialing needs to be more strict, not just a little bit but times 1000x more strict. Let me ask this, why doesn't credentialing limit skills? As in if credentialing doesn't cover it, it isn't allowed, will it happen NO but what would this do to STUNTING as well? Anything harder than a full up or kick full basket would be eliminated, that shows what kind of a JOKE this credentialing is. I'm up for renewing my credentialing this season but when I took the test, the CORRECT answer to how to teach a double was to "pull harder" so bc I answered "pull harder" I am now SAFETY CERTIFIED TO TEACH A DOUBLE FULL!!! WHAT, are you kidding me!? Explaining how to teach the difference between a full and double should be MUCH more in depth. I still say IF they do this it will change NOTHING AT ALL!!! Fulls and doubles are where a MAJORITY of the injuries occur NOT dub dubs.

Someone...somewhere is giving you a slow clap!:D

 

[JerricaLynn]

ohkcheery

Our society needs to get over the idea that we have to be so gentle to a kid's emotional state of mind. Competitive sports is just that, competitive. Yes, probably every kid on a team is going to be the reason a team lost at some point. Whether it be due to busting a skill or falling out of a stunt or whatever. Get over it. It's gonna happen. Stop trying to be so delicate with it. Toughen up. Our entire country is going to pot because we're so scared to offend people! Blah!

I couldn't agree anymore! It sounds like everyone else's solution is to take out the reason for this sport, competition! If every team was always perfect and hit every single time we would have a lot of world champions! But not many people go on the floor every time knowing they'll be 100% perfect. Deductions are a part of the game and we want to see who can play it best!

 

[cheertired]

I've been trying to say this forever....

this makes so much more sense than just taking out the difficult tumbing skills that people have worked so hard for... standing fulls and whip doubles are amazing skills that athletes should be proud of and should not be punished for, especially if they have great technique....

 

[5-6-7-8]

Our society needs to get over the idea that we have to be so gentle to a kid's emotional state of mind. Competitive sports is just that, competitive. Yes, probably every kid on a team is going to be the reason a team lost at some point. Whether it be due to busting a skill or falling out of a stunt or whatever. Get over it. It's gonna happen. Stop trying to be so delicate with it. Toughen up. Our entire country is going to pot because we're so scared to offend people! Blah!

I definitely agree...to a point. I have seen my CP fall out of a stunt, and it sucks, but that's life. I am OK with it, she is OK with it, the team is OK with it.

But what I am afraid of is putting SO much individual pressure on an athlete that affects the whole team. (This is assuming that a tumble bust becomes a major deduction.) And I am not talking about the ones who shouldn't be throwing the skill in the first place. I think of the younger teams (tiny, mini, maybe even youth) where a CP may have solid tumbling for the level but a fluke happens. I would hate to lose kids to cheer because they don't want that much pressure. I would prefer the team with terrible form but lands all back walkovers for example to be penalized MORE than the team that has great form and one unfortunate bust.

(And not saying an "unfortunate bust" shouldn't be penalized at all, but I would want this rule to target the scary stuff more.)