All-Star Religion In The Gym

[xtremeteal4life]

Just like your parents thought it would be best for you to live life (roughly) according to the morals and ethics set by the Bible, some parents believe in a different set of morals and ethics (whether they fall under some sort of religious umbrella or not) that they would like their child to abide by. The way I see it, a religion is pretty much a set of beliefs by which one lives their life; I have no lesser ethical or moral compass because I don't identify with a set, established religion (in other words, I still have a moral code by which I live, I just don't call it "Judaism" or "Christianity"). Would your parents, after teaching you the values and guidelines which they think are right (in short, a little thing called "Christianity"), send you to a Jewish synagogue to learn and try out that set of values and guidelines? Probably not...from a non-religious perspective, I don't see much variance in the two, except that you may aim to please a deity, while I aim to please...well, whomever I aim to please (maybe that Higher Burger King I talked about earlier. Do you think I'd get free fries as a reward for good deeds?)

On another note, I would hope that most parents would eventually - once they are mature enough - be open to allowing their child exposure to other sets of morals and ethics (i.e. religions) and ultimately allowing the individual to choose which is best for them, but I could be wrong.

I'm a "non-practicer" of religion and have absolutely no problem with public prayer, worship, etc of any kind unless it is causing an immediate disruptance in what is not intended to be a primarily religious atmosphere. That was a pretty broad stereotype to lay out...

(Hate to keep arguing with you, I guess we're both just active within this thread lol. I'd also like to add that I am a child of a father who comes from a practicing Catholic family and a mother from a practicing Jewish family. I was "raised" Jewish (Bat Mitzvah'd and all!), and I have been exposed to a lot of religion in my life...but ultimately decided that I didn't all-out agree with either religion that I was exposed to. I understand the value and influence that religion has on people's lives and would never try and negate that...I just have different ideas than you might on the issue at hand)

Thank you so much!!! I would shimmy this a million times if I could..well said imo

 

[xtremeteal4life]

This is becoming a very ethical debate as opposed to a cheer-related one...not sure we're in the right place for it anymore lol.

Is there a separate place on this forum where similar types of topics (personal stuff, etc.) are discussed where you could move thread to...I dunno?

 

[xtremeteal4life]

@Fierce

Yipes, I left my above response unfinished and came back to it and so didn't see this. I know you said "this is not as serious" but good grief. You cannot compare in any way asking someone to sit through a prayer with sexual harassment or not challenging racist comments. A little proportion please.

I understood her analogies and she did note that it wasn't quite in the same ballpark fwiw, so I don't believe she meant any harm or disrespect.

 

[lakerfantlc]

I think this topic belongs right next to the political one.....two things not to discuss...religion and politics...:)

 

[PghxCheer2]

I just brought the thread completely away from it's original intent (oops!). haha I'm done. (for real this time)! and @F!ERCE I definitely don't mind/hold it against you that you don't agree with a lot of what I'm saying. Everyone has their own views and your posts all seem well thought out and with good insight. Even though it may not seem like it, I LOVE to here other people's views on things like this. I think it helps me keep a more open mind in "real life". I actually think, taking into account what I thought a thread of this topic would turn into, it has stayed fairly positive for the last 10 pages! That being said, I'm going to stop while it's on top of the mountain!

 

[canttouchthis]

im a friend of all religions and i choose for myself not to put my self in religious situations so there isnt a debate and there isnt a heated argument. and believe me i have been in my share. and for all of you saying that your "God" is going to give you eternal life and all that and im not disregarding that but what if a Muslim was at your cheer place and your praying to the christian god? and what if that Muslim child talks to your child and your child becomes Muslim? is it still okay to share your beliefs? is it okay for you to have a prayer?

just a thought for the day!

 

[ztaprincess]

This talk may sort of be over but I am still looking for the answer to a question that relates to the original topic. Why is it that the prayer at practice can't be said silently by each indiviual NOT in a circle? Will it not do the same thing? If this was done then both sides could walk away happy and get what they want prayer or no prayer

 

[WorkToWin]

there is something special about praying together with a group. that is why at church we say prayers together and not just moments of silence to say prayers alone. and @canttouchthis can you please clarify your scenario, I don't think I understand what you are asking...

And it has already been said, but when you care about someone, and they don't believe in God it's harder than it seems to stay quiet. It my belief that the way into heaven is through God. You expect me to just keep my faith to myself? Don't get me wrong, I respect EVERYONE'S religion, and I will not "force" anything down anyone's throat because it's not my place. But next time a Christian starts to preach to you, instead of getting annoyed realize it's because they care about you.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

Most of the kids that have responded here have said they aren't very bothered by it and just go along with the prayer (a few exceptions). Sounds like it is more an issue with parents than the kids. Go figure that parents complain in a cheer gym when the kids are just fine. I think we should give our kids more credit in knowing their beliefs even when different beliefs are discussed around them.

Heading for the cheer bunker....

 

[canttouchthis]

there is something special about praying together with a group. that is why at church we say prayers together and not just moments of silence to say prayers alone. and @canttouchthis can you please clarify your scenario, I don't think I understand what you are asking...

And it has already been said, but when you care about someone, and they don't believe in God it's harder than it seems to stay quiet. It my belief that the way into heaven is through God. You expect me to just keep my faith to myself? Don't get me wrong, I respect EVERYONE'S religion, and I will not "force" anything down anyone's throat because it's not my place. But next time a Christian starts to preach to you, instead of getting annoyed realize it's because they care about you.

is there was a cheergym lets call it craptastic and it was NOT christian affliated but the coach decided to pray yet there was a child there of muslim faith. that child then witnessed to everyone and suzie (your child) decided to convert to islam do you still then think its okay to share your beliefs?

 

[mccracal]

there is something special about praying together with a group. that is why at church we say prayers together and not just moments of silence to say prayers alone. and @canttouchthis can you please clarify your scenario, I don't think I understand what you are asking...

And it has already been said, but when you care about someone, and they don't believe in God it's harder than it seems to stay quiet. It my belief that the way into heaven is through God. You expect me to just keep my faith to myself? Don't get me wrong, I respect EVERYONE'S religion, and I will not "force" anything down anyone's throat because it's not my place. But next time a Christian starts to preach to you, instead of getting annoyed realize it's because they care about you.

That's the whole point- it's at church. In that sort of environment, everyone there is probably there willingly and has signed up to be involved with that sort of thing. And that's great- for a religious environment. Cheer, in general, is a completely different scenario, and unless your gym is advertised as a religiously themed business, then it creates the potential to be incredibly exclusionary to a select minority, which is hardly what you look for in a team.

I'm interested to see if you would have the same respect for other people's religions if they consistently tried to "convert" you. They, like you, probably have the best of intentions, and are so happy with their personal faith that they want you to experience the same joy that they have. So, when you mix a bunch of people together with a bunch of different faiths, I'm sure you can see how someone might get irritated pretty easily, even if they all do it just "because they care about you".

I really do think it's awesome that you're happy with your religion, and I understand why you would want to share your feelings with everyone. But I also think it's important for you to consider that there are tons of people, myself included, that are also completely happy with a different religion, or no religion altogether. I don't expect you or anyone to hide their faith, but I do think it's disrespectful, and a little naive, to act as if people can only be happy and fulfilled if they live in accordance with your worldview. I used to be quite religious myself, and a lot of my friends still are, yet we've all mutually decided that it's better for everyone involved to not try to "preach" to anyone about our religious beliefs unless such discussion is actually relevant to the conversation that's going on, or if someone specifically asks us how we feel about our beliefs. I just don't particularly think that cheerleading is an example of such a relevant situation.

 

[12stepCheermom]

I've been on a few open teams where the coaches say a prayer before we compete. We live in a very liberal part of the country, and as someone who was raised Catholic but isn't really religious anymore, it seemed kind of weird at first. But now I just take it as a time to breathe, stand in a huddle with my team, and think about what I need to do. My coaches usually say something like help keep everyone safe, hit our stunts, some other skill we've been struggling with, etc. It kind of forces you to relax and think about the little things. I don't usually say "Amen" at the end, but I think we're all adult enough at this point that even if we aren't religious, we just use the moment for ourselves. Though I don't think any of my coaches would have been upset if an athlete chose to step away from the group during it.

I gotta go with you on this one. I was raised Catholic too and although we're Christian we don't really "do" the organized prayer thing so even though I was Christian it generally made me a little uncomfortable. Especially when I moved to the South and prayer is a way of life and expectation to proceed just about everything. But, here's the thing, I eventually just bowed my head, cleared my head and while they prayed I sortof "centered" myself. Sounds like what you're talking about. What's interesting about what you said is that I'm not really "religious" anymore either. I'm actually totally OVER religion...not faith...religion - there's a difference. We joined Elevation Church in Charlotte (sortof different and definitely NOT Catholic church) and that totally works for me. The interesting part is the number of Catholics that are there....I think we're all over "religion" in that particular establishment. As far as our gym goes - they don't hide the fact they're in favor of Christian principles, but they're completely NOT in your face about it. They have a prayer backstage before they go out to compete but that's about it.

 

[12stepCheermom]

This is so strange to me! I think it really depends on where in the country you are. I know where I'm from you would NEVER say a prayer with any religious reference before anything. An owner of a ym actually did and had half the team leave after that competition because the parents were not happy with their child apparently being forced to pray. A lot of teams I guess pray to the "cheer gods." Get in a huddle and kind of talk out loud but not "praying" per se. I even went to Catholic high school and we would NEVER pray before anything. I know there are a couple teeny tiny programs close by that are "faith-based" but they literally have one or two teams and can't even max out to 20 people on a team. But different parts of the country have different views I guess. Its kind of the same thing where you're more of an outsider for being a homophobe than actually being gay, but thats a whole other discussion.

I totally agree with you. I think this is the norm in the South, but I've lived all over the country, and was raised Catholic and in different areas the cultural norms are different. The most interesting thing about this thread is everyone's different perspectives geographically.

 

[WorkToWin]

That's the whole point- it's at church. In that sort of environment, everyone there is probably there willingly and has signed up to be involved with that sort of thing. And that's great- for a religious environment. Cheer, in general, is a completely different scenario, and unless your gym is advertised as a religiously themed business, then it creates the potential to be incredibly exclusionary to a select minority, which is hardly what you look for in a team.

I'm interested to see if you would have the same respect for other people's religions if they consistently tried to "convert" you. They, like you, probably have the best of intentions, and are so happy with their personal faith that they want you to experience the same joy that they have. So, when you mix a bunch of people together with a bunch of different faiths, I'm sure you can see how someone might get irritated pretty easily, even if they all do it just "because they care about you".

I really do think it's awesome that you're happy with your religion, and I understand why you would want to share your feelings with everyone. But I also think it's important for you to consider that there are tons of people, myself included, that are also completely happy with a different religion, or no religion altogether. I don't expect you or anyone to hide their faith, but I do think it's disrespectful, and a little naive, to act as if people can only be happy and fulfilled if they live in accordance with your worldview. I used to be quite religious myself, and a lot of my friends still are, yet we've all mutually decided that it's better for everyone involved to not try to "preach" to anyone about our religious beliefs unless such discussion is actually relevant to the conversation that's going on, or if someone specifically asks us how we feel about our beliefs. I just don't particularly think that cheerleading is an example of such a relevant situation.

In response to the first paragraph, a Christian is supposed to have God active in all the parts of their lives... not just in church. Someone asked if it made a difference to pray together and alone, and it is different. In response to the second paragraph, I have a really good Jewish friend and a really good Muslim friend. The muslim friend and I especially talk about religion all the time. She does try to talk to me about it, and I'm glad she cares enough to. It doesn't bug me at all, why would it? We can discuss and disagree respectfully and talk about it fine. I can honestly say if I moved across the world and joined a Hindu team it would not bug me at all to hear their prayers. I can believe in God and Jesus and hear the words of other religions with no harm done. I would also like to add that if you look at my post again I said it's not my place to preach at people, it's just ridiculous to be mad at your friends who do.

The bottom line here is it is a prayer. It can mean everything or absolutely nothing to you. If you chose to believe and mean the words it's amazing. If you don't, it's empty words.

 

[mccracal]

In response to the first paragraph, a Christian is supposed to have God active in all the parts of their lives... not just in church. Someone asked if it made a difference to pray together and alone, and it is different. In response to the second paragraph, I have a really good Jewish friend and a really good Muslim friend. The muslim friend and I especially talk about religion all the time. She does try to talk to me about it, and I'm glad she cares enough to. It doesn't bug me at all, why would it? We can discuss and disagree respectfully and talk about it fine. I can honestly say if I moved across the world and joined a Hindu team it would not bug me at all to hear their prayers. I can believe in God and Jesus and hear the words of other religions with no harm done. I would also like to add that if you look at my post again I said it's not my place to preach at people, it's just ridiculous to be mad at your friends who do.

The bottom line here is it is a prayer. It can mean everything or absolutely nothing to you. If you chose to believe and mean the words it's amazing. If you don't, it's empty words.

I understand and certainly wouldn't ask that you stop being active in your faith when you're not at church, but I don't think there's anything wrong with praying alone when you're in an environment that doesn't necessarily call for group prayer. It just seems like a good compromise that could keep everyone happy. Also, I didn't mean that just learning about other religions is inherently annoying; I think it's great that you're open to talking about different religions, and I love doing it myself! But I know that a lot of people would rather avoid the subject completely, and I respect that, particularly in an environment like cheer, which doesn't really have profound ties with religion. Remember that there are also a lot of teenagers (and people in general) that aren't so open minded about religions that differ from their own, and that there are also a lot of teenagers, and especially younger children, are prone to feel a bit like outcasts if they don't "fit in" with what everyone else believes, which is to be completely expected at that age. I think replacing a large group prayer with more individualized prayers, which would perhaps not be quite so "powerful", could work wonders in keeping cheer as an environment where kids don't have to feel excluded for their beliefs.