All-Star Usasf Age Grid To Be Released Soon!

[GymCoach]

You think the stunting is dangerous but not throwing a double full? That is the added pressure on their bodies, knees, etc where most injuries occur....not from level 5 stunting...just my opinion

Reread my post it said safely. I see more accidents on tucks then I do on twists.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I watched Youth 5 at NCA and didn't see anything that concerned me. I was more disturbed by the level 3's that barely cleared the floor with their heads on their back tucks. No one is trying to limit coaches that have not level 3 kids attempt level 3 skills. And what about the 15 year olds that are doing these skills that have no business doing them. For me it was much scarier watching the Level 5 senior teams. Some of them were way less skilled! I think for the most part the gyms that have athletes at that level at that age know the limitations of their athletes AND teach through proper progressions. They are reputable gyms that have been doing this a while. If the gym owner, coaches AND the parent are okay with it, then who am I to tell them that is too dangerous. Look at what these teeny tiny gymnasts do on a beam or bars. No one's gonna catch them when they fall.

I completely agree... Lets look at the all of 5 youth 5 teams out there... World Cup, CEA, Rays, ECE, Cheer Athletics. I don't think any of these teams were out of their element. And the teams that didn't have the skills needed, didn't do the elements. I know ECE's youth 5 did straight up stunts and a fan kick. That's level 3 but they were smart enough to know what they can do. And if a girl can't double all the way around, chances are they will single. Also, knock on wood, but you usually hear or see the tumbling crashes and hard stunt falls from Senior Level 5 athletes as opposed to Youth 5.

And this also goes back to coaches safety training, etc. If you are a good coach, you should know what your athletes can and can't do. At certain levels and ages, you have to realize limitations, and not just throw stuff in your routine. You make the decision if you want to go Level 4 and excel at everything, or go Level 5 and not max out on difficulty.

 

[fabulousity]

I watched Youth 5 at NCA and didn't see anything that concerned me. I was more disturbed by the level 3's that barely cleared the floor with their heads on their back tucks. No one is trying to limit coaches that have not level 3 kids attempt level 3 skills. And what about the 15 year olds that are doing these skills that have no business doing them. For me it was much scarier watching the Level 5 senior teams. Some of them were way less skilled! I think for the most part the gyms that have athletes at that level at that age know the limitations of their athletes AND teach through proper progressions. They are reputable gyms that have been doing this a while. If the gym owner, coaches AND the parent are okay with it, then who am I to tell them that is too dangerous. Look at what these teeny tiny gymnasts do on a beam or bars. No one's gonna catch them when they fall.

valid point, but it's only situational. and you can't compare to gymnastics, which is tightly governed and has less room for interpretation, creativity, and innovation. gymnastics uses a compulsory system for progress and development, cheerleading is only at the beginning of that stage with the levels. also, gymnasts don't even do roundoff handspring tucks until about level 6, which is generally 8-9 for the most competitive gymnasts (some states don't let gymnasts compete at level 4/5 until they are 7). i know multiple gymnasts who have tumbling beyond a tuck at level 6, but they are not allowed to compete it until they are passed to the next level.

 

[nccheerdad]

Just playing Devil's Advocate. I honestly see both sides of this issue. If the rule had gone the other way I might be speaking from the otherside. I see wiggly double downs in senior divisions. So should we make them stop too? No the best way to get it not wiggly is to practice it. I think the youth teams need to keep practicing it too. Really from what I saw at NCA, most of the coaches were already restricting their teams without regulations requiring them to do so.

You are right. If you were at Cheersport you would have said the same thing.

I would be really interested to see the zip codes of the people who voted to eliminate Y-5. My bet is that at least 3/4 were from small to medium-sized gyms in NC, NJ, ATL, Indy, and some in DFW and where the Y-5 teams tend to exist. There's no doubt that the Y-5 gyms are an attraction to the gifted eight to eleven-year olds and that the other gyms want to do everything to keep them in-house. How many of them who voted have truly watched the division?

 

[nccheerdad]

I completely agree... Lets look at the all of 5 youth 5 teams out there... World Cup, CEA, Rays, ECE, Cheer Athletics. I don't think any of these teams were out of their element. And the teams that didn't have the skills needed, didn't do the elements. I know ECE's youth 5 did straight up stunts and a fan kick. That's level 3 but they were smart enough to know what they can do. And if a girl can't double all the way around, chances are they will single. Also, knock on wood, but you usually hear or see the tumbling crashes and hard stunt falls from Senior Level 5 athletes as opposed to Youth 5.

And this also goes back to coaches safety training, etc. If you are a good coach, you should know what your athletes can and can't do. At certain levels and ages, you have to realize limitations, and not just throw stuff in your routine. You make the decision if you want to go Level 4 and excel at everything, or go Level 5 and not max out on difficulty.

Dead on! People need to see and understand what they are voting on. Many of the Y-5 kids at the gyms you just mentioned are of a different breed than your typical Youth athlete. I didn't see NCA, but after watching Rays and CEA at Cheersport, all I could think about was how much of a crime it would be to take that division away from those kids.

 

[texas2010]

Fair enough! My point is not that cheerleaders do less dangerous things. My point is that kids do dangerous things all the time. My friends kid races BMX and does trick biking. He doesnt practice any more than a cheerleader. He breaks bones all the time. His sport is dangerous. It is thrill seeking. They don't make him quit. They don't make him quit learning new stuff. It is what he does and what he loves.

I am actually quite well versed in what goes on in gymnastics as my cp was a gymnast first. Guarantee you the top programs in gymnastics are pushing their top athletes harder than these top cheer programs are pushing theirs! I have seen FAR more gymnastics injuries than cheer injuries. Came from a well known, highly accomplished gymnastics center to a well known, highly accomplished cheer program.

I just feel like it is the parents job to stop it if they don't like it. The coaches know their athletes better than we do. It doesn't affect anyone else if these coaches and parents agree to continue unrestricted. They made a place for coaches to put their athletes without having to compete against things they felt were too dangerous for their own athletes to learn. The way I see it is that it is a win-win for both philosophies. ABC All-Stars can now field a restricted level 5 team and not have to compete against CEA. And CEA can throw all the double fulls they want to throw. Results will either be Senior Elite rules Senior 5 forever because their teams have been doing doubles and ball up 360, tick-tock, tick-tock for 8 years or CEA will not have seniors because they all injured themselves and put themselves out of the game.

 

[ztaprincess]

I don't hate these decisions, but I do not understand how they decided on the things that they did. Some of these outcomes (Youth 5 and the size of large teams) are completely made up and different then what was voted on. Why have it voted on if those in charge are just going to create something different. Sorry but if I were a coach who voted with the majority and my vote basically was thrown out the door I would be very upset. If the people in charge believe that they know more about what to do then everyone else that voted then just don't take a vote. They rallied to get people registered to vote for these issues and the USASF went against it. I am sure it was done as Kingston said, to make things go in a more natural process, but that doesn't make it right. Get it done and over with instead of having to sit through it for another year.

It would be like voting for the President and your representative for your state decided not to go with the majority and instead gave the electoral votes to the other guy. What would be the point of voting if that person in charge doesn't listen to the majority?

 

[GymCoach]

Fair enough! My point is not that cheerleaders do less dangerous things. My point is that kids do dangerous things all the time. My friends kid races BMX and does trick biking. He doesnt practice any more than a cheerleader. He breaks bones all the time. His sport is dangerous. It is thrill seeking. They don't make him quit. They don't make him quit learning new stuff. It is what he does and what he loves.

I am actually quite well versed in what goes on in gymnastics as my cp was a gymnast first. Guarantee you the top programs in gymnastics are pushing their top athletes harder than these top cheer programs are pushing theirs! I have seen FAR more gymnastics injuries than cheer injuries. Came from a well known, highly accomplished gymnastics center to a well known, highly accomplished cheer program.

I just feel like it is the parents job to stop it if they don't like it. The coaches know their athletes better than we do. It doesn't affect anyone else if these coaches and parents agree to continue unrestricted. They made a place for coaches to put their athletes without having to compete against things they felt were too dangerous for their own athletes to learn. The way I see it is that it is a win-win for both philosophies. ABC All-Stars can now field a restricted level 5 team and not have to compete against CEA. And CEA can throw all the double fulls they want to throw. Results will either be Senior Elite rules Senior 5 forever because their teams have been doing doubles and ball up 360, tick-tock, tick-tock for 8 years or CEA will not have seniors because they all injured themselves and put themselves out of the game.

The activities/sport you used as examples are individual sports where you are not responsible for others getting injured.

We all know parents don't always step up when they don't agree with what is going on i.e. do you think any parent particularly a dad wants his daughter walking around in public in a very skimpy uniform that barely covers her butt and is cut up to the . . . but none the less we all complain and still the trend continues.

 

[GymCoach]

Sports like gymnastic force you to do all the lower levels before you progress to the top. You have compete a season at level 5 before you go to 6, 7, 8 . . .

The systems enforces progression and safety. There is more to cheer than just tumbling.

 

[AScheer]

you cant compare gymnast who are in the gym 20 - 25 hours a week with a cheerleader that is in the gyn 4 - 8 hours a week. Gymnast are far better conditioned.

While I agree gymnasts are usually far better conditioned, my guess is that any cheerleader who is on a y5 team didn't get to that point by being unconditioned and only spending 4 - 8 hours a week in a gym. While they might not be there 25 hours a week, I would bet they're there at least 4 - 5 days a week. You don't become that good that young by only spending 4 - 8 hours a week in a gym.

 

[GymCoach]

Some do they are able to do skills because there bodies are small with a low center a gravity. This is why many, not all struggle with skills when they start to grow and gain weight. The form that was not instilled because they learned to quickly results in lost skill, injury, and mental blocks. Any good tumbling coach that understands the biomechanics of tumble will agree. But once again my issue is not with the tumbling it is with the level of stunting . . . just because they can does not mean necessarily that they should.

 

[bobbi]

Here is my thoughts about the whole thing. I have been following this thread since the grid came out, and I am sure much more talk will continue, especially after the rules come out. But this is what I see.
Many on this thread have made very valid points about how these decisions were made, about the voting process etc. This are the things I would like to point out:
- The start of the voting/ rule changing process: brainstorming with coaches, EP's, etc on what changes they would like. Get together a list of suggestions that people would like considered, which was done.
- THEN go to the board and discuss the proposals, the ramifications if they passed, etc.
- THEN put together the voting ballot.
- Once the voting ballot is put together, they needed to stick with the vote. Because if they followed this procedure the board would have already agreed that if the proposal passed in the vote, or didnt pass in the vote they would be ok with the outcome.

I agree with those who are frustrated when they pay all the money and then their vote is overturned. Additionally I find it difficult that this process took SO LONG. I am not suggesting I have an answer, I am sure that those who were involved with the decisions directly had a very serious task in front of them, and I know all this griping doesnt help, because your not going to please everyone. But there is just something about taking a vote and then completely disregarding the result that doesnt sit right with me. I have faith in USASF, and I know the All Star community is going to continue to grow. But, there is always room for improvement.

 

[cheerislove8]

I have a quick question... international open coed 6... it says 1-12 males and it is highlighted. How did that change from the current rules?

I was wondering the same thing... I just checked the current age grid and it currently says 1 or more males for that division.

 

[cheermommaRN]

I wouldn't get to worked up about Y5...I did at first and then took the time to read all the way to the bottom of the 15 page document. Both divisions are being monitored for participation, and like Kingston said, the natural order of things one or both of the divisions will be gone for the 2012-2013 season. What I believe will happen is that there will be a large amount of Y5 restricted teams, and maybe 1 or 2 Y5 teams. Next season Y5 will be gone and Y5R will be the new standard, all of the prodigy tumblers will be on Jr5 teams.
My only concern with the "crossover to two other teams" is that you will see some gyms roll out a Y5R that looks almost identical member wise to their Y5 and sandbag the heck out of the division. So then these kids who think they are on level ground in their division will find themselves competing against the same kids that just took the mat an hour ago doubling and now they are just watering down...not cool.

 

[ACEDAD]

My only concern with the "crossover to two other teams" is that you will see some gyms roll out a Y5R that looks almost identical member wise to their Y5 and sandbag the heck out of the division. So then these kids who think they are on level ground in their division will find themselves competing against the same kids that just took the mat an hour ago doubling and now they are just watering down...not cool.

So what if the old Y5 division was gone? Then all those kids would be in Y5R without crossing over and would be less tired because they would have one less routine to run.