All-Star Illegal Elements (just To Raise Awareness)

[King]

I am being facetious which I'm sure you are aware of, as hopefully you are as well. However I dont doubt my intent flew over the heads of some people.

I am but the first line bothered me. The thing is I believe this was started because a downward inversion from the top is highly dangerous for most people to do. That was/is my concern. I have yet to comment or point out any of the other illegal stuff which isn't that dangerous cause them people just get upset.

 

[Deleted member 8658]

im woundering how the girl got hurt? i can see shes hurt i just didnt how?

 

[MissBee]

Or rather these attacks on another team you hate (being a professional coach) is rather annoying. It wasn't just this thread. He made sure to delete his fb status so that it didn't reflect negatively should other people happen to read it (as the link is no longer available in my cache). I assure you it was a bit uncalled for, as were the other ugly comments. If he really wants to "help us", or other athletes, I don't believe posting and allowing nasty posts about our program are the way to go about it. He may have deleted it to save face, but not before I got a screen shot.

Not deleted, so there goes that theory.

As a professional coach, we can make statements about the industry. In my full time profession I make statements about poor practices that I observe all the time. That doesn't mean I hate those organizations, it simply means I'm sick of people thinking they don't have to follow regulations, that they are above them. Posting things like this raises awareness. If you don't like it, you can always de-friend someone.

 

[chyeeaaa69]

im woundering how the girl got hurt? i can see shes hurt i just didnt how?

Landing her pass with legs locked I'm assuming. It can do some serious damage

 

[Kayla Basak]

Several years ago, one of of my old coaches did this at worlds, they called it illegal so he had to change it. Even thought it is very entertaining to see it is illegal and I am sure they would change it, if they have not already

 

[StarshipTrooper]

I have yet to comment or point out any of the other illegal stuff which isn't that dangerous cause them people just get upset.

Ah, go on and lay it all out there. I doubt anyone will get upset if done in a respectful manner. If it is helpful to everyone to have the discussion about an inversion, do it for the rest of the things you see in the rest of the routines. Really, I see no down side to having a reasonable discussion about what is and is not legal in routines. No one wants anyone to be hurt or to take unnecessary risks. And I hope we can look at all routines with the same scrutiny. Do you see anything illegal in routines from other gyms? I have a strong suspicion that many routines from many gyms may have something in them that someone educated about the rules may feel pushes the rules and definitions of legal or is illegal.

 

[King]

Ah, go on and lay it all out there. I doubt anyone will get upset if done in a respectful manner. If it is helpful to everyone to have the discussion about an inversion, do it for the rest of the things you see in the rest of the routines. Really, I see no down side to having a reasonable discussion about what is and is not legal in routines. No one wants anyone to be hurt or to take unnecessary risks. And I hope we can look at all routines with the same scrutiny. Do you see anything illegal in routines from other gyms? I have a strong suspicion that many routines from many gyms may have something in them that someone educated about the rules may feel pushes the rules and definitions of legal or is illegal.

Not one of my more tactful statements. I make it a deal to not discuss all the illegalities unless they are blatant and dangerous unless brought up by someone else.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

There are too many items here I want to quote. Out to meetings all day and I come back to all of this.

As for my status, it is still on my facebook. I didn't delete. And i stand by my comment. It is ridiculous.

I am all for pushing the boundries, but not with safety implications. The skills in question, both the stunt and pyramid, involve an athlete traveling upper body first toward the ground. This is made illegal for a reason. It only takes one time for it to become an issue. I'm sure every athlete has had a performance error at one time whether in practice or in competition. Flyer slips through your hands in a release move or in a cradle.

On another note, I have never made a personal attack on Courtney. And don't plan on doing so. If she has a huge issue with me, she could also bring it up to me. She clearly read this thread and i'm sure has read many of the posts i've made, or had them shown to her.

Also, Some people have brought up the Gym Tyme stunt from last year. If you search the board, you will see i felt strongly about that also. It was a clear black and white violation. No one claimed that i had personal vendettas against them and I even had several friends on that team and in that program.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

Not one of my more tactful statements. I make it a deal to not discuss all the illegalities unless they are blatant and dangerous unless brought up by someone else.

My assumption is that there is no cumlative data on the incidence of illegalities in routines by gym across the cheer industry. I guess one could keep up with actual penalities on scoresheets and probably catergorize them by risk of serious injury. It would be interesting and probably informative. You know, this whole sport is one or two serious injuries in high profile situations from seeing big changes in the rules and regulations as they now exist. I have no problem at all with people pointing out things they think are illegal or dangerous. Never my point. My kid flies. I like the scrutiny.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

Different day, same old argument.
If it bothers you that much, send Courtney an email it's on her facebook page.

as an fyi, i have courtney's email addressed memorized by now. This seems to be everyones answer to everything. And i have yet to send her one to discuss anything. There is no need.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Lots of pyramid issues. Any idea why that sees to be a problem area? So many skills in a short period of time?

Regarding Pyramids:
Levels 1 & 2 are people not reading the rules in my opinion. The rules are pretty clear about the connections that need to be made. This is where we often have newer coaches that don't know better yet.
L3 - Is people doing release moves with 1 brace when they need 2. This is a significant rules changes so I'm not surprised by this one. It's also people finishing inversion above prep level. I had a lot of issues with this last season so I'm not really surprised this has continued.
L5 - Is people not holding onto flips long enough. The enforcement of this rules has gotten lax in the last few years.

Right now I'm calling about 1 in 7 routines on something. I only point this out to reinforce the thought that seeing someone do it doesn't make it legal.

On a slightly different note we'll be a little more active in getting rules information to people this season. We should have a monthly update about what we're seeing the most and post pictures and/or videos to help clear up misconceptions. The first set should be grips for single based stunts, which many of you call 2-mans.

(When I say we I'm referring to Raymond, Kristi, and myself with Les' blessing. Raymond & Kristi are the safety judges on the USASF Rules committee and 2 of the safety judges at Worlds and in the arena at NCA. I'm the one that writes too much so they had to include me too.)

 

[Deleted member 15]

My assumption is that there is no cumlative data on the incidence of illegalities in routines by gym across the cheer industry.

There's actually a decent one from the past few years that covers what's been called at major events. It's been in making decisions about rules changes. This year the effort to collect data has been stepped up and it's "required" that safety judges enter all violations into the database.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

There's actually a decent one from the past few years that covers what's been called at major events. It's been in making decisions about rules changes. This year the effort to collect data has been stepped up and it's "required" that safety judges enter all violations into the database.

Sounds good to me. Similar to my profession. Outcomes and standardization are useful tools. Oh, and BTW, if not confidential, are there outlier gyms in the data and are they notified if they seem to have more violations?

 

[ErinS]

I am but the first line bothered me. The thing is I believe this was started because a downward inversion from the top is highly dangerous for most people to do. That was/is my concern. I have yet to comment or point out any of the other illegal stuff which isn't that dangerous cause them people just get upset.

I'm sure this thread was started with the best of intentions. However along the way it became catty which to me is unnecessary especially since we are all going to be able to find out the end result on Saturday.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Sounds good to me. Similar to my profession. Outcomes and standardization are useful tools. Oh, and BTW, if not confidential, are there outlier gyms in the data and are they notified if they seem to have more violations?

I'm not sure about either part of the question. If so I assume notification would be done by Les personally and only the people in the conversation would know about it.