All-Star "name" Of Gym Affecting Placement?

[Deleted member 15]

I believe it has to do with a perceived level of excellence, and the reason the perception is there, is because in large, the gym is excellent. I won't argue that at all. But I feel that little things are often overlooked. The way you fix nearly everything that is wrong with competitive cheer is make scoring transparent. Why wouldn't you? If everything is on the up and up, and you have nothing to hide? Someone said that the comp companies were worried that their judges would be exposed and people wouldn't return, in the long run this would strengthen the sport so much more because of consistency of judging followed by extreme parody in competition. Long story short it would be amazing for the masses and potentially harmful for those currently at the top.

Because many coaches don't want scores published because they don't want their team's fault available for their parents. I work for an EP and put every number from the score sheet online after our first event. It took 3 days before I was told to take it down due to coaches asking it be removed.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Can anyone say they won an event because the judges were biased against another team and decided to hand the championship to you?

 

[BlueCat]

You couldn't be more wrong:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/979699-the-50-most-popular-teams-in-sports/page/49
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-popular-sports-teams-on-facebook-2011-12#9-new-york-yankees-12
As far as American sports are concerned in the previous links the Lakers and Yankees are either 1-3, the other team in the top 3 are the Boston Celtics, and I'm sure you're aware they have actually won more championships than the Lakers.

Actually, he was correct.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471204575210384180269378.html

Being the "most popular" simply does not mean that fewer people hate you. It is often the exact opposite. Dallas Cowboys are a prime example of a polarizing team. Most years they are at or near the top of both the "most popular" and "most hated" teams list in the NFL.

 

[BlueCat]

Because many coaches don't want scores published because they don't want their team's fault available for their parents. I work for an EP and put every number from the score sheet online after our first event. It took 3 days before I was told to take it down due to coaches asking it be removed.

This makes me more sad than you can imagine.

 

[King]

Can anyone say they won an event because the judges were biased against another team and decided to hand the championship to you?

It's the only way I have ever won.

 

[lakerfantlc]

It's the only way I have ever won.

bahahahahahah
#silverspoonking

 

[tumbleyoda]

Can anyone say they won an event because the judges were biased against another team and decided to hand the championship to you?

It has been some years ago but I can say this happened to a team a local event. What made this appear worse is that the EP was very good friends with the owners of the other gym. But to be fair it was not the judges but the EP that stated that this team would not beat another team in a certain division. This came directly from the mouth of one of the judges who was asked to readjust the scores. I can not say that the judges changed the score but to my knowledge that judge never judged for that company again - which to me was a testament of that judges integrity that they did not want to be involved in any mess like that. The team that was told they should of won was announced as second. Scores were not publicly given by EP for that event so there was no way to see or compare anything. EP would not answer any questions and basically told the gym owner that every other team from your gym won so why are you complaining? You could not say if the judges changed the scores or if the EP did.

Unfortunately for some gyms and for some parts of the country if the highest level teams in the gym do not win, it is taken as a loss for the entire program - which I vehemently disagree with. This is kind of the situation that happened at this local event. Local pride and reputation was on the line. It meant something to all gyms attending because all the gyms fought for the same kids. When you looked at the two routines there was no way you could understand the official results. As a new coach to cheerleading, coming from gymnastics and having been a gymnastic judge I knew how scoring worked but this result made no sense. Especially without being able to see all of the scores.

In retrospect and being removed from the situation it is entirely possible that the other team could have legitimately won. But without scores of all teams to compare, see if there was math errors or elements not properly awarded along with information that came directly from the mouth of a judge that was judging the event and the knowledge of the friendship between the EP and the other gym owner, needless to say that was some major and necessary drama for years. This is why we need the transparency of scoring for all events, big and small, local, regional and National. The event may not mean much to one gym, but to another gym your little podunk local is their major Regional.

 

[Deleted member 15]

This makes me more sad than you can imagine.

I can imagine. I'm all for the number on score sheets being made public.

 

[XtremeWpg]

Because many coaches don't want scores published because they don't want their team's fault available for their parents. I work for an EP and put every number from the score sheet online after our first event. It took 3 days before I was told to take it down due to coaches asking it be removed.

Seriously? Competitions we have here the score for each run, the deductions, the total, and the combined scores posted online within about a week of an event! And I've never heard of someone complaining

 

[Coach Troy]

Let's say bias is rampant throughout the judging community. How do you fix it?

Why is it always stated that judges are biased in favor of the big or big named gyms?

I know !! I know!!....take the overall impression score away!!!!

 

[Deleted member 15]

tumbleyoda - Do you have any instances of your gym finishing first due to bias against another team? (emphasis on your)

 

[Deleted member 15]

I know !! I know!!....take the overall impression score away!!!!

Just overall impression or everything subjective?

 

[shep]

Because many coaches don't want scores published because they don't want their team's fault available for their parents. I work for an EP and put every number from the score sheet online after our first event. It took 3 days before I was told to take it down due to coaches asking it be removed.

I let my parents have the score sheets after every competition... nine out of ten parents didn't understand what they were looking at anyway. Any coach that is concerned with parents finding out their faults needs to put on their big boy pants and take some accountability. It's not that hard (and most parents are understanding) to say I focused too much here and as a result neglected this, we'll fix that and our scores. But when you are blind to what others have scored it's impossible to know for sure how to fix it.

 

[tumbleyoda]

tumbleyoda - Do you have any instances of your gym finishing first due to bias against another team? (emphasis on your)

Andre - Not that I am aware of, although I am sure a competitor may say differently. The incident I referenced above was about 2005 or 2006. Way different time period, score sheets, etc.

 

[Deleted member 15]

I let my parents have the score sheets after every competition... nine out of ten parents didn't understand what they were looking at anyway. Any coach that is concerned with parents finding out their faults needs to put on their big boy pants and take some accountability. It's not that hard (and most parents are understanding) to say I focused too much here and as a result neglected this, we'll fix that and our scores. But when you are blind to what others have scored it's impossible to know for sure how to fix it.

I agree. How do you get coaches that don't currently feel that way to start feeling that way?